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Risks of appeasing Iran's mullahs - Scottish MP
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 506
Location: Scandinavia

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

IF UNITED STATES wanted to do something about Iran and remove the regime then they would've ALLIED WITH SADDAM who could have helped the US remove the Mullahs. BUt instead, US removed Saddam Hussein, the Mullahs biggest enemy.


But this would make any Iranian with patriotic blood running through their veins to shiver in horror. Could you imagine the disgrace Iranians would feel if the US together with the ARAB republic of Iraq were to overthrow the ragheads in Tehran? Aren't we forgetting that Saddam Hussein in the name of Arab nationalism was trying to take Khuzestan away from Iranzamin? Anyway, that would truly be an unholy alliance.
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saddam Hussein had to be removed.

Regardless that it was the biggest enemy of Iran, he was a brutal dictator.

As a freedom lover, I am happy when EVERY KIND OF DICTATOR of this earth is overthrow.

Democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan will succeed and if the Mullahs will be next, I hope they will be the next target.
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Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Saddam Hussein had to be removed.


Perhaps. But there were and still are far worst threats to world and US security, and far worst dictators than Saddam like Iran and North Korea, however neither country had Iraq's oil reserves. It wasn't about threat, or who had to be removed, it was about O.I.L. Oppression, Ignorance and Lies or business as usual!

If the US wanted Iran freed, Iran would have been freed. And Iraq, was the biggest strategic mistake of the US in decades.
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As a democracy lover , I think that whatever will happen , Saddam had to be removed.

If a shiite theocracy will prevail ( I strongly doubt that, because the Iraqis are mainly secular ) the blame is not to be directed against the removal of Saddam. It's to be directed against the State Dept which allowed the Iranians and the Syrians to enter the country and sow disorder-

I think that Bush will succeed ONLY IF HE WILL NOT LISTEN TO THE EUROPEANS ( THE US HAS NO NEED OF THESE KIND OF EUROPEAN "ALLIES") AND BACK TO THE 2002 POLICY OF UNILATERALISM
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Iraq, was the biggest strategic mistake of the US in decades.


I disagree
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Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I said there were and still are far worst threats to world and US security than Saddam, that Bush didn't do anything about and can't do anything about now because of Iraq, that is why it is the biggest strategic mistake.

As for the State Dept. I had no idea that the State Dept operated independantly of the president. Shocked Apparently previous administrations seemed to have had the State Dept working for them, but apperently not with Bush, this is the everyone does as they please administration with no coherent central leadership, or atleast leadership that actually leads an adminstration. The more you blame the adminstration the more poorly it reflects on Bush as a leader, Stefania.
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spenta wrote:
Like I said there were and still are far worst threats to world and US security than Saddam, that Bush didn't do anything about and can't do anything about now because of Iraq, that is why it is the biggest strategic mistake.

As for the State Dept. I had no idea that the State Dept operated independantly of the president. Shocked Apparently previous administrations seemed to have had the State Dept working for them, but apperently not with Bush, this is the everyone does as they please administration with no coherent central leadership, or atleast leadership that actually leads an adminstration. The more you blame the adminstration the more poorly it reflects on Bush as a leader, Stefania.


I agree, Saddam was a maniac, no doubt about it. I don't mourn has capture, I celebrate it. But one has to ask himself, was Saddam Hussein a grave danger to the world? He no doubt did tremendous damage to his country, words can not express the crimes he commited, but it was not the intention of the invasion, or the liberation if you will, to free the Iraqi people from his menace. The idea was to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destructions, weapons we now know did not exist since the inspections. Not on a large scale that is.

Having followed the developments since the invasion I can clearly say that the Iraq-war was a huge strategic mistake. The real threats to world-peace are Iran, North-Korea as well as Syria, but these have all been given space to breath, while Iraq has been monitored closely at a
large scale. This war has given the mullahs the break they so desperately needed. This means that the overthrowment of the islamic republic will be even harder and I fear that we may not see a democratic Iran in a a long time.
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perzopolis



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stefania wrote:
Saddam Hussein had to be removed.

Regardless that it was the biggest enemy of Iran, he was a brutal dictator.

As a freedom lover, I am happy when EVERY KIND OF DICTATOR of this earth is overthrow.

Democracy in Iraq and Afghanistan will succeed and if the Mullahs will be next, I hope they will be the next target.


Stefania, I commend your stance against Dictators --- I think most rational people wince at the idea of being ruled by a dictatorship, especially religious ones. THe problem is, just because Saddam was a brutal dictator and we Iranian people hate his guts, doesn't mean it is a logical move on the chessboard from the perspective of those who actually want postive change in the Middle East.

The most logical step would've been to utilize the overwhelming political capital gained from the tragedy of 9/11, remove the Taliban like we did, but then not create this feeling of IMMINENT DANGER from Saddam. Saddam was nothing compared to the Mullahs.

The US should've pressured the world - and educated the population of United States about what is going on in Iran and the whole Middle East and begin non-stop rhetoric and action to support all peoples in the region who want to be free. These actions would weakenn these dictatorships and allow for change and freedom to tear down the walls that the West has helped to create over the past several decades.

Instead US went a blasted Iraq to hell. We've lost 1,000 plus American Soldiers. Israelis and Palestinians still bombing each other. And who is FREE? You think Iraqi citizen is happier now or before? I don't know the answer to that, but it's a lot more dangerous now than before - and the thought of some Islamic regime coming to power.

US needs to act fast to take out the Mullahs PERIOD!
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irani



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saddam was in no wasy better than the mullahs.
The mullahs have a bad record to but they are nothing compared to those of Saddam, have you all forgotten about the massgraves already?!

Stefania; The Iraqis are not secular, the majority have been surpressed for the last deccades and now it their time to stand in the spotlight, i'm 90% certain that the Iraqis will have some sort of an Islamic nation by the end of the year, even if its not Iranian type it will be Pakistani or Afghani type, in reality its the same shiite.
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear perzepolis, I think that the effort to topple Saddam was worth the price

Yes, the Iraqis are Happier now.

One need to read the polls and the surveys and I have several friends, that are bloggers, who report these polls and surveys frequently.

Again, whatever will happen, the Iraqis are enjoying their freedoms now and are eager to vote.

I hope that the Islamic Regime will be next on the list of countries where toppling the regime is needed and URGENT.

and, after Iran, there must be Regime Change in Syria, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Lybia, Pakistan, Cuba, Burma, Belarus, etc etc..

I know that i'm just a dreamer.. But dreams something turn to be true.
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perzopolis



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stefania: I'm not fighting with you, but what criteria are you using to determine if it was worth the price? I don't think that can be determined yet. It will take many years to tell if it was worth the price. If the current situation is the most progress ever reached, then at this stage, it wouldn't be worth the price.

I would also check what you say very wisely. I know you support Iranian people - but just understand that many of us are American citizens, who have lost 1000+ friends, family and compatriots in Iraq - so unless Italy has sacraficed 1000s of it's citizens, then I don't think you are in a position to say if it is worth the price.

Iraqi citizens, American citizens and Iranian citizens have been some of the most hardest hit groups from 9/11 onward and have sacraficed the most.

stefania wrote:
Dear perzepolis, I think that the effort to topple Saddam was worth the price

Yes, the Iraqis are Happier now.

One need to read the polls and the surveys and I have several friends, that are bloggers, who report these polls and surveys frequently.

Again, whatever will happen, the Iraqis are enjoying their freedoms now and are eager to vote.

I hope that the Islamic Regime will be next on the list of countries where toppling the regime is needed and URGENT.

and, after Iran, there must be Regime Change in Syria, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Lybia, Pakistan, Cuba, Burma, Belarus, etc etc..

I know that i'm just a dreamer.. But dreams something turn to be true.

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perzopolis



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

irani wrote:
Saddam was in no wasy better than the mullahs.
The mullahs have a bad record to but they are nothing compared to those of Saddam, have you all forgotten about the massgraves already?!

Stefania; The Iraqis are not secular, the majority have been surpressed for the last deccades and now it their time to stand in the spotlight, i'm 90% certain that the Iraqis will have some sort of an Islamic nation by the end of the year, even if its not Iranian type it will be Pakistani or Afghani type, in reality its the same shiite.


I don't think we're saying Saddam was better or Mullahs better, they are all evil bastards. I think it's a question of strategic and tactical moves. Taking out Saddam and turning our backs on the Iranian people? does that make sense to you as an Iranian?
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because, WMDs or not, the Iraqi people couldn't continue be left under that tyrant

EVERY TYRANT OF THIS EARTH SHOULD BE TOPPLED, REGARDLES IDEOLOGY OR RELIGION

I make it a matter of principle-

I love Democracy EVERYWHERE
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saddam was a danger to the world, and was most of all, he was a danger to his people . Don't forget the Iranians died by his hands
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stefania wrote:
Saddam was a danger to the world, and was most of all, he was a danger to his people . Don't forget the Iranians died by his hands


I am not saying this, it's good that he was removed. But the time of his removal has shown to have been bad and now it is giving us unwanted consequences.
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