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United We Stand For NEW YORK, UN Sept. 14 Rally
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Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 1672

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
Dear Blank,

1. I have stated many times....that is...if you've bothered to read my posts instead of just cherry-pick from them....just what my stance is regarding both the KKK and the MKO-MEK-NCRI (whatever they chose to go by)...

So saying I somehow support them is just a bit irrational on your part...

not to mention a bit insulting.... factually incorrect, and you know it.

It was not my intention to insult anyone, but the way you are telling everyone in here that they should accept MKO as part of the "opposition group" is not only irrational but insulating to us, it is no different than saying accept Hezbolah & Hamas as part of your opposition group. Having the knowledge of their terrorist activities, would be as if we insisted that you should include KKK as part of your political organization, and then sort things out later..

So you are now attacking me personally because I wanted to know why RP didn't show...well I have legitimate reason to ask...

I find it just a bit illogical as well to say that RP may have been at some possible security risk at the UN rally...with some 170 heads of state present, with diplomatic security to the max positioned everywhere...and If I'm not mistaken RP has only recently again called for unity between opposition groups when he last spoke in a rally in LA around the elections.
Funny that....since there was far less security in that rally ...not to mention the fact that LA has a large number of IRI supporters, if not the largest number anywhere in the country.

I didn't attack you personally, I just find you unreasonable when you have no clue as what he was told; maybe he was told with the presence of a large number of a terrorist organization such as MKO, he should not be out there, and for your information he was not part of the 170 heads of states. The rally in LA was 1/7 size of the one in NY, most of them were parliamentarians, and where do you get all this false information that a large number of IRI were present in LA rally. I am not here to convience you or change your mind, I just think you are plain wrong.

So he's got no wish to associate or speek in a rally that has other groups present? Either you are wrong in your assesment, or he's got a credibility issue himself that he needs to deal with.

So I just don't think your "take on it" holds water as to why he didn't show up in New York, just to be fair to the guy.

I don't think you really understand the dynamic of what is going on. It is not him that has credibilty issue, it is you... again I am not speaking for him, just my own thoughts were that if he had come to suppurt and represent one group as oppose to others, it may have not brought the unity he had hoped for in such a large rally and with so many different oppostion groups.

In this thread you can see for yourself if you bothered to read some of the SMCCDI statements regarding the nature of the unity among groups on that day...that it really is only you on this board that doesn't recognise the need for unity.

Also if you read the articles by Cyrus and Aryo, they have both denounced the MKO's as part of the opposition group.

I read the article you posted, and even in that there were statement to that effect...

My "openmindedness" as you call it is simply a concious realization that the facors involved in (as I posted) and the parameters required for a future free Iran, must obviously curtail any one group from having total control, or forcing its ideology on the process.

This is one of the points you didn't get.

One thing you may consider as well is that in all the time I've been posting, whether here or on SMCCDI, I've not only been very fair minded toward others opinions, and listened, learned, and appreciated debate, but I've also been the worst nightmare of those who would put their ideology before, and at the expense of others.

I appreciate your fair mindedness. You also might want to question why no opposition group wants to be associated with NCRI/MKO.

Recent case in point is a fellow who posted here in the general discussion his answer to an American's letter to his brother (titled as such)
I suggest you review it.

In closing, I said before the MKO would have to deal with it's credibility issues, not just with Iranians, but with the US State Dept. Don't forget I am an American, or why they have no support from me.

So a lot of work has to be done, not just by them, but by all opposition groups, and their leaders to get over the dysfunctionality of personality conflicts, and vision, before any semblance of unity is obtained.

Sept. 14th was a start , but truly only baby steps in the right direction.

One last thing....If someone had payed my way...I would have been there too...since I couldn't afford a ticket myself....but that wouldn't have "bought" my support, since it's been long standing for Democracy....and the sign I would have been holding up would have simply read:

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


I worry about you sometimes...either you simply read what you wish, or simply do so haphazardly.

1. 170 heads of state were at the UN...security was as about as high as any event in the last decade....I never said RP was one of them....he didn't have any reason for concern, as far as safety was concerned...that whole demo was a cooperative effort...MKO crossed over to sing along with monarchists during the singing, folks talked with each other in a civil way...and LA has around 5000 mullah's men running around...I didn't say they were all at the rally in LA....please read more carefully....

2. I asked why RP wasn't there....and found your explanation faulty for a number of reasons....plus the fact that you obviosly haven't a clue what he may have been told, or why he made his decision not to show.
I never pretended to, which is why I asked in the first place.

3. Yes you are getting personally insulting.....I don't have to worry about my credibility Blank....for reasons you'll never know. And I don't concern myself with your assertion I should be....

4. MKO is an opposition group, like it or not. They have also contributed to the common effort against the IRI.
As well, a future Iran is going to have to include a lot of Muslims, but not extremists....there's a big difference. Separation of church and state...is also something I talked about, as well as a diverse number of political parties...Read what I've posted, and I suggest at least twice...before you end up making a fool of yourself by deliberately "misunderstanding" me.

5. Find a quote from me that states I support the MKO and I'll eat my shorts, if you can't, and I know you can't....then you can eat my shorts instead.

Tired of your little semantic games blank, and I'm really not in the mood, so don't be putting words in my mouth if you wish to have a contructive conversation....

Last edited by Oppenheimer on Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

P.S. Considering the mood, and the crossing of lines between groups to interact and discuss things....RP's presence would have been welcomed....especially had he reiterated that message of unity.

You still seem to be a bit hung up on who's got more credibility among groups...well, blank, what is not said, or done is just as important as what is.

I asked because I was a bit disapointed he choose not to attend, at such an important time and place.....but as they say ce'est la vie....

Come to think of it, I wonder how many folks felt the same way...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To attend or not to attend, that was Reza's question, and in talking with a friend a short while ago, he offered a thought that made a great deal of sense.

It may be that RP did not want to appear to be reacting to Antar's presence at the UN, by "coming down to his level" , as it were, giving speeches. As such,he said, it may have been good he stayed away.

He also noted as he was there, that while the MKO pumped their "candidates", so did a few monarchists, with the same level of ideological zeal.

Different ideology obviously but just as fixated on what the future Must be...rather than finding middle ground....and so I think (and in agreement with my friend) that the "old guard" as he put it, "needs to heed the younger generation's democratic aspirations."

So correct me if I'm wrong in my understanding here....

As I see it...

Iran is by history and tradition, a diverse and multi-cultural, multi-lingual, multi-ethnic, multi-religeous, and multi-political oriented society, repressed by a backward looking, ideological, dysfuntional, and mono-dimentional regime that cannot ever hope to honor the diversity which the melting-pot of Iran represents.

On this I think all would agree...and so I speak as an observer in this from gut instinct, and the recognition of the dynamics at work above.

What then would Iran as a nation become, other than what it already is, but totally denied by an unelected few who wield the power of the gun, and money?

What is the strength of a democratic society, if not its diversity?

How is diversity representitive in a political system of government chosen by the people...and not by the gun?

I say it must involve inclusiveness in all aspects, whether that be repecting an individual's civil and human rights, or that individual's right to take part in the system of government, as well as freely deciding by national direct referendum his personal choice of what type of government and the constitution that defines the rule of law it abides by.

Now you have some 70 million individuals who seek to have a voice in the matter, and a very young and forward thinking population, vested in modernity and change.

What can the past possibly offer them? Will it feed their aspirations?

I say a sucessful Iran nation cannot carry the baggage of the past into the future like a dead weight.

However it is just as valid to say that in doing so, culture and tradition will play a significant part in how the best of the past can be forwarded on to future generations in this process.

You have at present a repressive attempt to maintain a "one size fits all" society, which will ultimately collapse into a miriad of thoughts, political parties, religious afiliations, civic and cultural alignments, and issue specific quorum all involved in producing a government structure and constitution that not only honors the meaning of being Iranian, but its inherent diversity, by representation.

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