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blank
Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 1672
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Cyrus:
I did a little research on this Conference on Federalism. My sources in LA, where it has the largest Iranian population, have said these individuals want independent states (Federalism) rather than a united Iran. In fact the guy representing Azabaijan, Rahim Shahbazi, I was told, he has his own TV/radio program and is constantly promoting independent Azabaijan. Do you remember there was a guy by the name of Diri that used to post on this site, and eventually was banned, he used to constantly lie, every crime that was comitted by IRI, he would accuse MRP of doing that. All he did was to change the focus away from IRAN to his own agenda, suffering of Kurdish people and an independent Kurdestan. At this point and time that we need to show a united front to the world, Ledeen knowing or unknowingly is promoting a divided front. Now I can understand Espandyar's concern.
The suffering of Bluchi, Azri, Kurdi, Bakhtiari, and other ethnecities is not any more or less than the whole Iranian population under a criminal regime. I believe Ledeen should be informed that he is turning the focus away from Iran as a whole country in distress, to individual groups, this not only does not serve any purpose, but it causes more friction among our fellow countrymen.
Ps: Also AEI referes to Pesians "only a minority" and other groups "majority" WRONG
Unitl 80 years ago that the name was changed from Persia to Iran....all of us WERE PERSIANS we still are. In fact in our constitution, before the ragheads invaded Iran, it says, Iranian/Pesian can be used interchangeably....
I do hope you and other leaders of opposition group will contact Michael Ledeen and let him know that he will lose credibility in the eyes of Iranian opposition groups, by promoting division rather than unification. |
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blank
Joined: 26 Feb 2004 Posts: 1672
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:34 pm Post subject: Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" (AE |
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Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" (AEI)
October 17, 2005
On June 16, 2005, the American president declared, "America
believes in the independence and territorial integrity of
Iran." For the last five years the American president has
reiterated his support for democracy in the Middle East,
specifically citing that he stands with the people of Iran
in their quest for freedom.
The American Enterprise Institute has generally been
supportive of President Bush's message of democracy and
pluralism in Iran. Regretfully, the relatively positive
attitude Iranians have towards the policies and ideology of
AEI are now are at risk due to a conference that is to take
place at AEI named "Unknown Iran."
http://aei.org/events/type.upcoming,eventID.1166,filter.all/event_detail.asp
The conference's aim is to shed light with regards to why
federalism should be implemented in Iran; however the
panelists of this conference are all well-known
separatists.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.iranian/browse_thread/thread/9a1e863e8f328a9c/73cffc274db93de6?lnk=st&q=Rahim+Shahbazi+****+persian&rnum=3#73cffc274db93de6
Iran's problem is not the implementation of foreign and
potentially damaging ideas such as federalism, rather the
lack of territorial management on the part of the Islamic
Republic. If there is one thing that all Iranians agree and
are united on, regardless of political affiliation, it is
the preservation of Iran's territorial campaign was a clear
example that when it comes to matters relating to Iran's
territorial integrity, Iranians speak with one voice.
We urge you to take greater care with regards to
conferences and policies pertaining to Iran. In order to
clarify AEI's position that it is not interested in
supporting separatism in Iran, we request that only the
genuine Iranian flag be displayed at the above mentioned
conference, the Lion and the Sun.
Down With Islamic Republic!
Long Live Iran!
The "Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial
Integrity" (CDITI)
* SMCCDI is a memeber of the CDITI Coalition
Additional links:
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2203.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2206.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2375.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2385.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2376.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_3330.shtml
----------------------------------
Comments / Nazariat:
Tel: +1 (972) 504-6864
Fax: +1 (972) 491-9866
E.mail: smccdi@daneshjoo.org
www.daneshjoo.org or www.iranstudents.org
The "Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy
in Iran" (SMCCDI) / "Komite e Hamahangui e Jonbesh e
Daneshjoo i Baraye Democracy dar Iran" |
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cyrus Site Admin
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 4993
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:20 pm Post subject: Re: Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" |
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blank wrote: | Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" (AEI)
October 17, 2005
On June 16, 2005, the American president declared, "America
believes in the independence and territorial integrity of
Iran." For the last five years the American president has
reiterated his support for democracy in the Middle East,
specifically citing that he stands with the people of Iran
in their quest for freedom.
The American Enterprise Institute has generally been
supportive of President Bush's message of democracy and
pluralism in Iran. Regretfully, the relatively positive
attitude Iranians have towards the policies and ideology of
AEI are now are at risk due to a conference that is to take
place at AEI named "Unknown Iran."
http://aei.org/events/type.upcoming,eventID.1166,filter.all/event_detail.asp
The conference's aim is to shed light with regards to why
federalism should be implemented in Iran; however the
panelists of this conference are all well-known
separatists.
http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.iranian/browse_thread/thread/9a1e863e8f328a9c/73cffc274db93de6?lnk=st&q=Rahim+Shahbazi+****+persian&rnum=3#73cffc274db93de6
Iran's problem is not the implementation of foreign and
potentially damaging ideas such as federalism, rather the
lack of territorial management on the part of the Islamic
Republic. If there is one thing that all Iranians agree and
are united on, regardless of political affiliation, it is
the preservation of Iran's territorial campaign was a clear
example that when it comes to matters relating to Iran's
territorial integrity, Iranians speak with one voice.
We urge you to take greater care with regards to
conferences and policies pertaining to Iran. In order to
clarify AEI's position that it is not interested in
supporting separatism in Iran, we request that only the
genuine Iranian flag be displayed at the above mentioned
conference, the Lion and the Sun.
Down With Islamic Republic!
Long Live Iran!
The "Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial
Integrity" (CDITI)
* SMCCDI is a memeber of the CDITI Coalition
Additional links:
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2203.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2206.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2375.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2385.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_2376.shtml
http://www.daneshjoo.org/article/publish/article_3330.shtml
----------------------------------
Comments / Nazariat:
Tel: +1 (972) 504-6864
Fax: +1 (972) 491-9866
E.mail: smccdi@daneshjoo.org
www.daneshjoo.org or www.iranstudents.org
The "Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy
in Iran" (SMCCDI) / "Komite e Hamahangui e Jonbesh e
Daneshjoo i Baraye Democracy dar Iran" |
Dear Blank,
Thank you for post, this is a good Open letter by SMCCDI to "American Enterprise Institute"
by stating fact, now we can put this on first page of ActivistChat from tonight.
Rahim Shahbazi might have support from few Iranian Azari. I think our fellow Iranian Azari community the true sons and daughters of Babak, Satar Khan, and Baghar Khan should consider to issue a strong statement regarding "Rahim Shahbazi" garbage. The Islamist regime in Iran is the only minority which must be removed from power and that is the only obstacle to Free society, secular democracy in Iran and roots of all problems in the region.
President Bush concluded: "America believes in the independence and territorial integrity of Iran. America believes in the right of the Iranian people to make their own decisions and determine their own future. America believes that freedom is the birthright and deep desire of every human soul. And to the Iranian people, I say: As you stand for your own liberty, the people of America stand with you."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/16/AR2005061601056.html
Regards,
Cyrus |
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Oppenheimer
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 1166 Location: SantaFe, New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Dear Cyrus,
I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.
The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....this post is 6 years old, and so we'll see if time has changed anything....
-----------------
Rahim Shahbazi Mar 1 1999, 2:00 am show options
Newsgroups: soc.culture.iranian
From: Rahim Shahbazi <ras...@worldnet.att.net> - Find messages by this author
Date: 1999/03/01
Subject: We are South Azerbaijanis...
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse
Javid and Avshin Gardash (Brother):
I do thank both of you, for having such a active role in defending our
nation and our country North & South Azerbaijan. It is about time we
must show to these Persian Losers that our Azerbaijani Nation in the
South will not take any more crap from a few Persian stooges. But my
main message today is with Persian ponk Ansar and here it goes....
You ansar Persian Aryan ponk, remember my name, also remember that I am
from Tabriz, South Azerbaijan. I hope one day I will see bastard in some
place, I will make you eat you own Aryan **** you S. O. B. Remember you
Persian Jack Ass if you are talking with that language with my
Azerbaijani homeboy Javid, remember you just talking to over 35 Mil.
South Azerbaijanis. We are able and we will kick you Persian Ass wipes
and throug you **** head, Aryan Skin head out of our country South
Azerbaijan. And we will freed our 2000+ years old country from the
occupation by Persian Chavinist. You Persian ponks think, you can keep
my South Azerbaijani Nation quiet, ha? You are damn day dreaming man,
lets wait a little bit, we are just waiting for the right time. Remember
our North Azerbaijanis Brothers and Sister are and alway will be behind
of 35 Mil. South Azerbaijanis. You know why Persian ponk? Because alway
we happened to be one nation of Azerbaijanis, one country of North &
South Azerbaijan with the National language of Azerbaijani Turkic
Language (NOT FUCKING PERSIAN LANGUAGE). If you think you persians will
always illigalize South Azerbaijanis Language, you god damn day dreaming
again. Because this time we South Azerbaijanis are going not only
liberate our Nation Language (Azerbaijanis Turkic), but also we will
freed our occupied territories from the Persian government. We will kick
you Persian Asses once for for all from our country South Azerbaijan.
You ansar Persian ponk you don't have fucking right to mess around with
my North & South Azerbaijani Nation and specially with the great
Presiden of all the Azerbaijanis around the world. Remember, if you
Persians have balls why not doing something about the Molla's Persian
government. Don't ever think this time again we South Azerbaijanis will
come forward to send our young people to get rid of Persian government
in Tehran, No you are mistaking. We are not coming to rescue you Persian
losers, and also we are not coming to save you Persians Ass the way we
did in Iran-Iraq war. We have completely different agenda time. We are
going to liberate our own nation and our country of South Azerbaijan. By
the way, I am very glad we are dealing with bunch of lazy ass Persians,
we know how to take care of you Aryan Ponk Basterds. Just wait and will
see it...
Victory is and will be with 35 Mil. South Azerbaijanis, you will see
it.
This is not dream but this is pure reality.
Hope to see you in front of Sniper you basterd, we South Azerbaijanis
will teach you a listen that you never and ever forget it even if you
live another 2000 years full of **** Persian, Aryan racist life.
Long live North & South Azerbaijan.
Dead to racist, Chauvinist, Aryan (Skin **** Heads), Persian Ponks like
you and other same thought people like you Ansar.
Rahim, From Tabriz, South Azerbaijan. |
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Liberty Now !
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Joined: 04 Apr 2004 Posts: 521
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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leave Rahim and the likes of him (spies and betrayers of Iran) to the Azeris and kurds and balouch of Iran.
they will deal with them.
in fact if this Rahim guy was sent to downtown Tabriz the turks of tabriz would teach him and his foreign masters a lesson not be forgotton that easily!
God damn 'em. they created khomeini and all this mess, and now they're up to no good again!
[ unless this is a crazy way of getting the Iranians into the political game. since most are sick of it by now. but the result will be Iranians standing against the perptrators and heaven forbid possible with IRI . it wont work either way] _________________ Paayande Iran
Last edited by Liberty Now ! on Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:21 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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cyrus Site Admin
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003 Posts: 4993
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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Oppenheimer wrote: |
Dear Cyrus,
I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.
The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....
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Dear Oppenheimer,
This is a good strategy "it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN" and good point. |
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Spenta
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Joined: 04 Sep 2003 Posts: 1829
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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thats a good letter from SMCCDI |
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Oppenheimer
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 1166 Location: SantaFe, New Mexico
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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"Iran's problem is not the implementation of foreign and
potentially damaging ideas such as federalism,...."
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SMCCDI's letter to AEI, brought the right questions to bear , and the only technical flaw I think is in the above quote, as such it is my understanding that "federalism" was indeed indigious, as evidenced by how Cyrus the Great structured the Persia of 2500 years ago.
Federalism is the basic concept of a number of states all governed by one central government and constitution.
Wheras individual states may have their own regional government and constitution, it reflects (without going against) the federal government or national constitution.
You can see this in the US, as one example.
As I think about it, if one were standing in Europe in 1947 , if someone had said in 60 years Europe would be whole, free and at peace, as a union of democratic states, they'd look at you like you had come from another planet...(chuckle)....so maybe folks will laugh if I say that I anticipate by 2030 a "Persian Union" (or by another name) comprised of a number of currently independant states , in a loose nit federated union not unlike the EU today....and it's ok ...go ahead and laugh....it has nothing to do with "separatism" or the IRI's ideology....those "ideas" will be long dead...
Those that would seek a limited solution by splitting off from the Iranian Republic, do not serve to help remove the IRI in totality...and in fact distract from true solutions, and waste their energy in vain persuit of a lesser goal.
But we shall see what is said.... |
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Liberty Now !
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Joined: 04 Apr 2004 Posts: 521
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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it's not federalism we're worried about. people in Iran will see it as a plot towards separation.
it's the known fact that all separatist gorups are supported by certain western powers that creates the base for all the worries.
even if Iran were to become federal, it's none of brits business, or anyone else for that matter.
also, we still remember the time that british separated khouzestan. and just as last time, Iranians are ready to fight them to death and take their land back. infact the arabs of khouzestan have so much bitter memories from the brits taking over their land and oil, and treating them like mules, that they would love to teach the brits a historic lesson yet again!
bring it on dirty brits. let's see what you got!
the Iranian arabs are the lions on the flag. we'll leave you to them with utmost contempt. they were part of Iran for thousands of years, and and are more nationalistic than many persians.
can't wait to see you hung on the oil pipes of Abadan, by the same Iranian Arabs you so count on!
and afterall you've neither appologized nor paid the price for your fascist take over of khouzestan oil. maybe it's time. _________________ Paayande Iran |
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Oppenheimer
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 1166 Location: SantaFe, New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:37 am Post subject: |
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it's not federalism we're worried about. people in Iran will see it as a plot towards separation.
-----------------------
Well Liberty, since a federal government is essential to democracy, I think you folks should be worried about seeing it as some kind of plot towards separatism.
It would be nice if just once you could see how the IRI manipulates the opposition's emotional and nationalistic tendancies.
They know there's great mistrust for the Brits...they can read it on sites like this just as well as anyone.
So, what do they do? they blame the bombings on the Brits and the US ...and like clockwork what may be actually an indiginous terrorist cell, (perhaps with separatist ideas) , then is accepted to be British support for separatism, because of past circumstances that would suggest so.
But there's no credible proof today that that's actually the case Liberty.
What happened 30, 50, 100, or even 150 years ago is not relevent to the post cold-war era....totally different dynamic at work in foreign policy now.
And so I say for probably the hundreth time....if your remain stuck in the past, you are simply denying yourselves a future.
That's goes for everyone in the opposition.
I know why a lot of Iranians are so obsessed with history Liberty....it's because there's no hope for a future...in their minds....so it is only natural to bury one's self in the glorious past deeds of a great nation, or place blame on others for it's demise....but that still is never going to get you folks where you want to be from this point your at today.
Rehash, of rehashed old arguments....in a perfectly viscious circle taking you nowhere quickly.
Regards,
Oppie |
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Liberty Now !
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Joined: 04 Apr 2004 Posts: 521
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:33 am Post subject: |
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the hatred for the biriths policies goes deeper than than, and IRI doesn't have to find it out in sites like this. it's a well known fact for many generations.
with all that hatred, people calling from inside Iran are all saying that the bombings are the work of IRI, just like the cinema rex and any other terrorist attacks and plots. they may not have much stomach for politics anymore, but they have learnt their political lessons.
the reason people have lost hope in their future and left politics alltogether, has it's base in a few factors. one of them being the recent history of western influence and manipulations in Iran's political scene.
the people at some point decided that it's impossible to go against such foreign plots!
and most of them don't want to blindly go along with just any western plan for they have also lost their trust. they can see many of the plans in resulted into rise of the most brutal form of fascism. and they were the ones who paid the heaviest price for plans like Green Belt, and still paying for it to this day. that said, can anyone blame them for not trusting new plans?
I'm just telling you what I've been observing and how the majority in Iran feel.
...so any western plan must have a clear agenda, for the people to support. it must be clear what is to be achieved. if it's vague and generalized, they wont buy it. like we support you, so go change the regime now! especially when right after that comes the next phrase: or else!
(if separatist groups are involved, obviously it will just anger the population rather than get them interested. I'm not saying they are involved, just hypothetically.)
I dont see how federalism with change the rgeime! and would rather see plans by Iranian groups joining hands to find a practical way.
but I believe federalism will be a good thing for Iran, but there are many issues that have to be considered to make it safe. and to reassure the people that it's not about separation in long term. I believe there are plenty of educated specialist in Iranian socio-cultural issues, that could outline the necessery steps to be taken before any such plan can be implimented.
all of that because this nation have had many problems with that in the past. mind you the problem was never from within, but dictated from without, as I've mentioned before, by Russia & England.
keep up the good work everyone. cheers! _________________ Paayande Iran |
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espandyar
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 236
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:33 am Post subject: |
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cyrus wrote: | Oppenheimer wrote: |
Dear Cyrus,
I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.
The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....
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Dear Oppenheimer,
This is a good strategy "it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN" and good point. |
What the both of you stated is a exuse not to contront Ledeen.
But no worries those who care will!! Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial Integrity, (CDITI) is not SMCCDI eventhough SMMCCDI is one of the memebrs. There are several well known organizations involved.
Thank god that they are not affraid of people like Ledeen!
How are you suppose to fight the IR when you even cant raise your voice to protest gainst known seperatsit? wait and see?????
Anyways thank you other avtivist for showing your concern:
Here is peition that you should send to everyone you know:
http://www.marzeporgohar.com/index.php?l=1&cat=18&scat=161&artid=673
Payande Iran
Espandyar Irani |
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Oppenheimer
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 1166 Location: SantaFe, New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:21 am Post subject: |
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with all that hatred, people calling from inside Iran are all saying that the bombings are the work of IRI, just like the cinema rex and any other terrorist attacks and plots. they may not have much stomach for politics anymore, but they have learnt their political lessons.
----------
I would tend to agree that the shopping mall bombings may have been IRI, but I don't think the pipeline bombings were.
As I said there's an indiginous element at work, the IRI may have staged the mall bombings to discredit those who'd bombed the pipelines, as well as blaming it on the Brits, to arouse nationalistic sentiment.
------------
"the reason people have lost hope in their future and left politics alltogether, has it's base in a few factors. one of them being the recent history of western influence and manipulations in Iran's political scene. "
There are a lot of factors Liberty, of which this may be one of them, but the biggest one of all is folks are simply trying to get by, day to day without hope of an opposition that can actually inspire their confidence to act, and to win against the IRI who has taken great pains to see that that revolt will never happen internally.
" the people at some point decided that it's impossible to go against such foreign plots! "
Screw "foreign"....they've decided that there's no one that can lead them in revolt against the IRI. They've lost confidence in themselves and in the opposition, turned to drugs, and anything else they can to escape, including getting physicly out of Iran. And you know this is the truth.
-------------
"...so any western plan must have a clear agenda, for the people to support. it must be clear what is to be achieved. if it's vague and generalized, they wont buy it. like we support you, so go change the regime now! ..."
MMMmm, France and the US sponsor a UN resolution (1553 I think it was) on Syrian occupation of Lebanon.....suddenly there's 1.5 million folks on the streets (and after Hariri's assasination) , but the trigger plus the international support was all that was needed.
Different animal Lebanon...is from Iran....but the concept is sound.
"...especially when right after that comes the next phrase: or else! "
Time is short because the regime poses a dire security risk to the international community, those are the realities on the ground....the regime puts it's own ambition above the safety of its people, and that's another fact the people must grasp.
It is an either/or proposition....either the people stand up for their liberty or they don't.
Then it is simply a question of how the international community deals with the threat posed, and how that becomes manifest.
The regime is not stable, it rules by fear only. Conform or be cast out, or worse. But it is unstable in other ways....the Brits seem to have failed to understand the sociological implications of dealing rationally with an essentialy religious idologicaly driven illogical regime hell bent on making prophesy manifest, if it has to destroy civilization as we know in order to achieve their warped vision.
And it is this that has infuriated the opposition over the years, because it has manifest as "appeasement' and failure of moral responsibility, where it has been initiated simply through failure of understanding who they were dealing with.
Now the IRI isn't hiding its ugly face anymore, as it tried so hard under Khatami's presidency.
Things have changed in the British mindset
-----------
"I dont see how federalism with change the rgeime!"
Only people can change the regime Liberty, it is the concept they do it under that matters for the future of Iran.
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"all of that because this nation have had many problems with that in the past. mind you the problem was never from within,..."
I'd have to fundementally disagree with that, as you so often descibe it as Facism, let me tell you why Germany is a thriving democracy today...and I think we can agree that that nation was caught square in the middle of the cold-war, divided up into sectors of control by both the Soviets and allied forces after WW2 , divided by a wall for 40 odd years, the pariah of Europe , and run into the ground by a facist regime that ruled by fear...
So, why is it they are not blaming others for their problems of the past...I'll tell you.
Think of it, the German people looked around at all the destruction caused by Allied and Soviet weaponry, their nation in total ruin, many dead, many more homeless....and yet they didn't blame the allies and Soviets for this....they had come to the realization that their own leaders were to blame for it.
Yet it took another 40 odd years before that country was whole, soverign , and not undrer the influence directly by other nations.
You'd think the German people would have something to ***** about....but the reason they are a healthy vibrant society, living in a federalist democracy, is because they have managed to leave the past behind, and stride in to the future with hope and confidence.
In 1963, Kennedy went to West Berlin, and said "We are all Berliners"
(may not be an exact translation from the German he spoke, but that was it's essence) Meaning we all strive to be free.....it still took a quarter century after that to make it manifest in a unified Germany.
None of it came easy Liberty, it was as every bit as painful as what the Iranian people are going through now. Hungary 1956...Checkoslovakia...1968. The march of freedom is a long hard road, and it doesn't serve to dismiss the efforts of those that supported freedom throughout the cold-war, as simply some manipulative nations with questionable intent for Iran's future.
So it's really up to you folks to grab that brass ring that is your liberty. We can lend a hand, but the plan has to be your's...not passed off to us to decide for you....but there comes a point where the threat the IRI poses must be dealt with...and that is a security matter for the whole international community to weigh in on. So there is a limit to how long you'll have to pull it together.
As I see it, there's very little coordination or agreement among the opposition on how to get there from here....lot of animosity between various groups, personality conflicts, political differences.....and this is not something the US or anyone else can solve for you folks....this is your responsibility to stand together in common purpose.
It's getting late, and I'm tired of repeating myself.
g'night... |
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Oppenheimer
Joined: 03 Mar 2005 Posts: 1166 Location: SantaFe, New Mexico
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:57 am Post subject: |
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What the both of you stated is a exuse not to contront Ledeen.
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espandyar,
(yawn)....you just don't get it do you?
Far better to assess than assume intent, and by letting them have their say in a Democratic way, they have nothing to accuse you of unless you have denied them the opportunity to speak. If they hang themselves with their words....then they've done so with no effort on anyone's part.
I wish SMCCDI's forum had all it's old posts archived...I picked Ledeen apart on a number of occasions....blowing holes in his assertions in many respects...., but they are only eather now....
In any case, he's entitled to his opinion....and he doesn't influence mine....why are you scared he might influence people?
In fact I have seen nothing to suggest you have anything to fear from Ledeen....so what if he's moderating this panel discussion?
Let them all have their say, in a democratic fashion, as I'm sure your group would appreciate the same respect given for your voice in the matter..
What is not worthy of respect is to attempt to deny other's that right.
SMCCDI placed some valid concerns on the table to AEI, as is their option.
As it is anyone's option, at a time of their choosing. I choose to adress it when I have a transcript in hand to quote in my assesment, rather than simply assume beforehand what may or may not be said.
If you disagree with my fair-minded and democratic approach, then this is your problem, not mine....but it does cause me to question your ethics, and your basic methodology. As well as the kind of future Iran you envision, because you have forgotten the basic premise of democracy.
(yawn)...gotta drive these points home to you and park them in that garage full of grey-matter that you have yet to prove to me contains any common sense at all....
But I have one suggestion to find some, and that is simply logic over emotionalism, truth over viewpoint, and ethics over all.
If you procede in this manner, you stand on principal with both feet firmly planted.
If you continue to direct your efforts otherwise, you'll loose big time in the long run, and it won't be anyone's fault but your own.
(yawn)...3:00am....time to park myself in bed. |
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espandyar
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Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 236
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:33 am Post subject: |
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Having a "democratic" conspiracy for something illegal as intefering with national territory of a country and to promote ilegal claims is not a democratic right!
This has nothing to to with democracy! It is ilegal and thats it.
Would you tolarate if another country would have a major democratic conferance abour seperating US i pieces?
Quote: | yawn)...gotta drive these points home to you and park them in that garage full of grey-matter that you have yet to prove to me contains any common sense at all.... |
Is this the way you respond to someone who dont agree?and you talk about democracy?
For the record if you are not able to have a nomal disscusion and need to make stupid comments you will be ignored! [/quote] |
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