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Letter (form) from my (Canada's) Minister of Foreign Affairs
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BitWhys



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 9:10 pm    Post subject: Letter (form) from my (Canada's) Minister of Foreign Affairs Reply with quote

hi folks. long time. thought I'd pass along an email I got in response to a couple I sent back in April.

Quote:
Dear Mr. Dondo:

Thank you for your e-mails of April 1st and 11, 2005, concerning the
brutal killing of Ms. Zahra Kazemi in Iranian custody. I regret the
delay in replying to you.

Canadians were deeply shocked and saddened by Ms. Kazemi's brutal
treatment and death. We know that many Iranian citizens also share our
concerns about these events. Iranian commissions struck by then President
Mohammad Khatami and by the Majlis (Iranian parliament) cast doubt on
Iran's official account that Ms. Kazemi died through an accidental fall.
The revelations of Dr. Shahram Aazam, the first physician to examine
Zahra Kazemi, added disturbing detail about the condition of Ms. Kazemi
after her interrogation. The circumstances are simply unacceptable.
Iran must fully investigate and bring those responsible to justice. The
Government of Canada has forcefully and repeatedly raised the issue
with the Government of Iran and will continue to pursue the Iranian
government to ensure that those responsible for the death of Ms. Kazemi are
brought to justice and that Ms. Kazemi's body is returned to Canada in
accordance with the wishes of her family. The July 30, 2005 arrest by
Iranian authorities of Abdolfattah Soltani, one of the lawyers
representing the Kazemi family, is also cause for concern.

Canadians should know the extent of our actions. The following
represents some highlights:

*Canada has repeatedly and consistently, to the highest levels, raised
the Kazemi case with Iranian authorities. We have made clear our
indignation and our demands for justice.
*Canada has asked the Iranian government to pursue an independent
three-person forensic investigation into the death of Ms. Kazemi.
Ultimately, a credible investigation is the only way that the disturbing
questions about this case can be answered. Iran has rejected this proposal.

*Canada withdrew its ambassador to Iran twice as a strong diplomatic
signal of protest. We have since returned an ambassador to Tehran, this
being the only way to directly engage Iranian authorities on the Kazemi
case and other issues of great consequence to Canadians, such as Iran's
nuclear program.
*Canada has pursued the Kazemi case in dialogue with other governments,
the European Union and United Nations bodies, and sought their support
in this case as it is representative of the serious human rights
violations that persist in Iran. We appreciate greatly the active assistance
they have offered, and we continue to liaise with our like-minded
partners to discuss developments and strategy.
*We remain in telephone contact with Mr. Stephan Hachemi, the son of
Ms. Kazemi, to share details of developments. Canadian government
lawyers have also engaged in a constructive, cordial and common-cause effort
with Mr. Hachemi's lawyers to look at every legal avenue available.
These discussions are being pursued on a regular basis.
*We have met on numerous occasions with Nobel Laureate Shirin Ebadi, a
lawyer for the Kazemi family, to discuss available avenues under
Iranian law. We are continuing our dialogue with this exemplary human rights
defender.
*We assisted in bringing Dr. Aazam to Canada as a refugee and have
respected his need for confidentiality and safe haven. Information
provided by Dr. Aazam will contribute to our ongoing efforts to achieve
justice for the family of Ms. Kazemi.
Additionally, Canada placed further restrictions on bilateral
engagement with Iran as a strong sign of our outrage following the inconclusive
judicial appeals of May 16 and July 25, 2005. We now engage with
Iranian authorities only on the Kazemi case, human rights, and the nuclear
non-proliferation question. All programs of cooperation with the
Iranian government have been halted.

The death of Ms. Kazemi has highlighted for Canadians the serious
problems that exist with Iran's broader human rights record, particularly in
areas such as freedom of expression, treatment of prisoners, and
independence of the judiciary. Canada has been active in reminding Iran of
its international human rights obligations. We have led on two
successful United Nations General Assembly resolutions pointing out the serious
shortcomings of Iran's human rights performance. Moreover, at the
opening of the 2005 session of the United Nations Commission on Human
Rights, I personally singled out Iran, saying that it must show its
willingness to address its appalling human rights record. On August 5, 2005, I
again expressed Canada's concern over Iran's human rights situation,
including the case of Ms. Kazemi. I called on the new Iranian government
to turn words into action and to honour its commitments to both its
people and to the international community.


On September 20, 2005, while at the United Nations in New York, I met
with Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki. This meeting marked
the highest level contact between Canadian and Iranian officials in
years. I reiterated Canada's outrage at how the Kazemi case was handled
and the family's demand that justice be rendered and that her body be
returned to Canada.

Since 1996, Canadian political relations with Iran have been governed
by a policy of controlled engagement. We place limits on our contacts
with Iran: for instance, Iran is not able to open consulates in Canada,
there are no direct air links, and export controls are applied on
sensitive goods. This policy reflects our concerns about the Iranian
government's opposition to the Middle East peace process, its support of
terrorism, its position on nuclear proliferation and its human rights
record. As I also mentioned in my statement of August 5, 2005, only
meaningful change in Iran's position on human rights and nuclear
non-proliferation can lead to an improvement in our relationship.

Some have suggested that Canada impose economic sanctions, such as
trade or investment sanctions, in response to Ms. Kazemi's death.
Experience has shown that economic measures such as these do not have the
desired effect of compelling a change in another state's behaviour if they
are imposed unilaterally. The Canadian legislative framework recognizes
this. It allows for unilateral sanctions against a foreign state only
in exceptional situations such as where there is a grave breach of
international peace and security resulting in a serious international
crisis.

I can assure you that I will continue to raise both Iran's record on
human rights and the specifics of the Kazemi case with my counterparts at
every opportunity. Iran must respond and fulfill its obligations as a
member of the international community.

Thank you again for taking the time to write.

Sincerely,




Pierre S. Pettigrew


keep the faith, whatever persuasion that may be.

b
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Rasker



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peace out bro, have missed you around here, though Oppenheimer seems to be doing a good job of talking like you, if you look at some of his posts!

Glad to see Pettigrew chimed in on the general outrage on Monkey-Boy's call for a Jew-free world this week!

"Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad!"
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BitWhys



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. yeah I checked his posts. difference is he seems to know what he's talking about.

Pierre and PM Martin have both surprised me the last little while but they've still got their mitts where I don't think they belong in a few areas. Imperfect world and all.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasker wrote:
Peace out bro, have missed you around here, though Oppenheimer seems to be doing a good job of talking like you, if you look at some of his posts!

Glad to see Pettigrew chimed in on the general outrage on Monkey-Boy's call for a Jew-free world this week!

"Whom the Gods would destroy, they first make mad!"


I believe this is just a "lip service", all talk and not a real meaningful action from Canadian government. If they really meant business they will start freezing the raghead's huge assets in Canada. Mullahs nearly own Canada, they only understand and will take action if it starts hurting their pockets, otherwise you will never see any response from IRI. I am afraid , Candadian government is only a chip off the old block (Britain).


Last edited by blank on Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BitWhys



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
Posts: 164
Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...If they really meant business they will start freezing the raghead's huge assets in Canada. Mullahs nearly own Canada...


1) I've thought about that but from what I can figure there's no getting around the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

2) Actually, if its anyone its the US that nearly owns Canada.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BitWhys wrote:
Quote:
...If they really meant business they will start freezing the raghead's huge assets in Canada. Mullahs nearly own Canada...


1) I've thought about that but from what I can figure there's no getting around the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

2) Actually, if its anyone its the US that nearly owns Canada.



1-I think if Canadian government really wants they will find a way of getting around the 'Charter of Rights and Freedoms.' What about Kazemi's Rights and Freedom?
2- I think Rafsanjani and the Mafia's wealth is obviously not as transparent as the US, but my understanding is they have cleverly invested in just about everything in Canada, of course under different names, and I won't be surprised if there is money laundering involved.
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BitWhys



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Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basic Rights and Freedoms are sometimes a burden society must bear, but they should NEVER be something to be "got around". Zahra Kazemi died in the struggle for the principles you are now demanding Canada compromise. Please let's not reduce her name to fodder for jingoism.
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Rasker



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Realistically, I doubt that the regime or any of the major actors have any significant amounts of traceable assets in Canada . However if a judgement against the regime could be gotten on behalf of Kazemi's family for say, $100 million, that would give leverage to go looking for such assets in third countries, and this would be a real test of where those third countries stand in the struggle for transparency and human rights.
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BitWhys



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know its an assumption but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that push comes to shove CSIS has a dossier for if and when the whip does come down. The problem I see is that you can't seize assets that can't be tied to illegal activity. Guilt by association is nothing short of arbitrary.
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Rasker



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

True, the assets would have to be in some sense controlled by or on behalf of the regime or one of the other guilty actors, but 'on behalf' can cover a lot of ground, especially when only talking about attachment pending judgement.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BitWhys wrote:
Basic Rights and Freedoms are sometimes a burden society must bear, but they should NEVER be something to be "got around". Zahra Kazemi died in the struggle for the principles you are now demanding Canada compromise. Please let's not reduce her name to fodder for jingoism.


By no means "getting around" should be interpreted as participating in an illegal activity. If there is a judgement against the regime, on behalf of Kazemi, that should mean the regime and all (ragheads) involved. It may take some good detective work, but I am sure they can find plenty to freeze. Maybe Canada should hire some good Israeli intelligence agents and I promise they will be able to hunt down and come up with IRI money laundering and financial covers........Unfortunatley, many of us know the Canadian government is benefiting from trades with Iran, so there is not much of an incentive in pursuing this vigorously...but they are good in giving lip service......
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rasker wrote:
Realistically, I doubt that the regime or any of the major actors have any significant amounts of traceable assets in Canada . However if a judgement against the regime could be gotten on behalf of Kazemi's family for say, $100 million, that would give leverage to go looking for such assets in third countries, and this would be a real test of where those third countries stand in the struggle for transparency and human rights.


All you have to do is to talk to some Iranian-Canadian, that were told Iranian "princes" live in Canada.. Evil or Very Mad
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BitWhys



Joined: 11 Mar 2005
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unfortunatley, many of us know the Canadian government is benefiting from trades with Iran


which trades? which part of the whopping $300M a year in bilateral trade is going into government pockets? what specifically are you accusing Canadian politicians of? Kickbacks? Conflicts of Interest? Are there import tarrifs on IRI goods I'm not aware of? I'm sure plenty of "good detective work" has gone into that little bromide. gimmie the scoop or give me a break.

please. accusations like that do little to bolster the credibility of an already crippled voice.

afa freezing assets goes, what are we supposed to do? pick names out of a hat? we've been totally stonewalled on the facts in this case. freezing assets because a money trail leads back to someone we "think did something we don't like" flies in the face of even the most basic of diplomacy.

mind you. now that I think of it. that's probably exactly why they ARE stonewalling. they obviously couldn't care less about what our opinion of them is.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="BitWhys"]
Quote:
Unfortunatley, many of us know the Canadian government is benefiting from trades with Iran


which trades? which part of the whopping $300M a year in bilateral trade is going into government pockets? what specifically are you accusing Canadian politicians of? Kickbacks? Conflicts of Interest? Are there import tarrifs on IRI goods I'm not aware of? I'm sure plenty of "good detective work" has gone into that little bromide. gimmie the scoop or give me a break.

Which part of the above statement says, 'your politicians are getting kickbacks? Why are you make up stuff that I did not say?? Canda like the rest of the EU do business with IRI, this is a fact that everyone knows. Just like EU are benefiting from their trades with Iran, so as Canada.
If you don't understand what I am saying, please ask instead of making false assumptions
.

please. accusations like that do little to bolster the credibility of an already crippled voice.

afa freezing assets goes, what are we supposed to do? pick names out of a hat? we've been totally stonewalled on the facts in this case. freezing assets because a money trail leads back to someone we "think did something we don't like" flies in the face of even the most basic of diplomacy.

Again you are not reading what I said, this is what I said:
"It may take some good detective work, but I am sure they can find plenty to freeze. Maybe Canada should hire some good Israeli intelligence agents and I promise they will be able to hunt down and come up with IRI money laundering and financial covers
"

mind you. now that I think of it. that's probably exactly why they ARE stonewalling. they obviously couldn't care less about what our opinion of them is.

I believe if there is a will there is a way, I also believe Canada is truly not interested in this whole thing, you may disagree and that is fine.....
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BitWhys



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which part of the above statement says, 'your politicians are getting kickbacks? Why are you make up stuff that I did not say?? Canda like the rest of the EU do business with IRI, this is a fact that everyone knows. Just like EU are benefiting from their trades with Iran, so as Canada.
If you don't understand what I am saying, please ask instead of making false assumptions.


I understand what you're saying. YOU'RE the one who doesn't understand what you're saying. You said the CANADIAN GOVERNMENT. That mean either members of the federal public service or our elected representitives. What you SHOULD be saying is Canadian businesses are benefitting from trade. well...

1) Its a free country and government only has so much say as to who does business with whom. $300M a year is chickenscratch compared to the damage to Canadian business's reputation for reliability if the government chose to force dishonored contracts over a controversial issue. Believe me I wish they could do more but they have no real grounds to take such a stand on at this point and overall that is one hell of a slippery slope. It just begs the question "who's next?".
2) Earlier this year the GOVERNMENT boycotted its own IRI-Canada business conference over the Kazemi issue. No doubt that cost us a fair amount of venture capital right there but if I were to assume your opinion stands for that of the many, that action has gone unappreciated. But somehow I doubt thats the case. And just so we understand each other I agree with their not cancelling the conference altogether because it involved a wide range of stakeholders and an important part of diplomacy is to avoid going over the top and making a point of keeping our commitments.
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