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The God of the Jews and Christians is not Allah!!!
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A christian is a christian because he accepts the sacrifice for his sins. Anyone can do that. Whether a muslim, an amadiyya, black, white, whatever!

~?
What?? Confused Confused Confused
How can a muslim possibly be a christian at the same time? as you've already pointed out earlier on in this exact thread, they're completely incompatible.

Quote:
But you do know what Im talking about, dont you?

No actually but im assuming its somehow related to the Shia clothheads in charge of Iran atm ...

Quote:
You are a son of adam, you share his guilt - and your own.

Actually I just have my own. its not exactly logical to be punished because someone else did something.
and it doesnt matter that im a son of adam. adam was still a different person to me and if god is punishing me and evry1 else around here because of what adam and eve did, i would actually stop worshipping him completely.
The thing is, my god doesnt do that.

Quote:
? - explain

Some guy was preaching to little kids around 4 or 5 that the matter should be evenly distributed because of the big bang - well he forgot microwave disturbances which Hawking proved and they happen to line up exactly where the matter is.
THere was something else ... but ive forgotten it now.

Quote:

If a judge lets you off the hook for a speeding ticket because he loves you, how is that unjust?

I should be paying the ticket
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Cyrizian



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How can a muslim possibly be a christian at the same time? as you've already pointed out earlier on in this exact thread, they're completely incompatible.


Islam is a religion. A set of actions one does to better himself. Christianity is not like that. Anyone can partake of the sacrifice. Allah is not compatible with you is what I meant. Yeshua says "This is my body, which I give for you"



"Take it and eat it." -Yeshua

"Accept me" Forget about religion, there is no action in this. Only faith. Thats all it takes.

Quote:
Actually I just have my own. its not exactly logical to be punished because someone else did something.


God didn't like it either. So He did something about it.


Quote:
Some guy was preaching to little kids around 4 or 5 that the matter should be evenly distributed because of the big bang - well he forgot microwave disturbances which Hawking proved and they happen to line up exactly where the matter is.
THere was something else ... but ive forgotten it now.


What about how if everything spun so fast that it exploded in the big bang. (Besides how nothing can explode into somthing) How come all the galaxies spin different directions? The law of conservation of angular momentum states that all things spinning in a frictionless environment when they break off or "banged" all things broken off should be spinning the same direction. IE If you fly off a carousel in motion you will spin the same direction. But all the galaxies and the planets in our own galaxy don't do that. ...hmmm... guess there wasn't a big bang... But scientist dont want you to know that because what else is there but to assume somekind of intellegent design. *immitates scientist* Uh-oh! Cant have that!

Quote:
I should be paying the ticket


You mean you would willingly pay the price over accepting mercy?
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You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan


Last edited by Cyrizian on Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Im not a physicist. I dont even take physics at school anymore

2. No, i probably would prefer the not having to pay the ticket, but i still wouldnt approve of it.
in fact, im sure pedestrians would feel really endangered. seeing as i walk most places, that doesnt really have me feeling safe.
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Cyrizian



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Im not a physicist. I dont even take physics at school anymore


Neither am I. But it makes sense and evolution doesn't. Thats all I'm saying.

Quote:
No, i probably would prefer the not having to pay the ticket, but i still wouldnt approve of it.
in fact, im sure pedestrians would feel really endangered. seeing as i walk most places, that doesnt really have me feeling safe.


You don't approve of mercy...at all?
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You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer justice to mercy. If youre too merciful, all you do is encourage bad behaviour.
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Cyrizian



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...True, if you choose to abuse mercy, but it also encourages thankfulness, appreciation, and love. Justice dictates that you be punished. Justice is cold and hard and you don't want any part of God's justice. I have sinned and I have only 2 choices: justice or mercy. I don't even have to think about it, I'm taking mercy. And I appreciate and love God for giving it to me freely. He didn't have to, but He did. And thats why I serve Him with my whole heart.
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You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've repented, Im assuming. That is essentially "sorry wont do it again," which does serve one of the purposes of punishment in itself - reform - i.e: making the criminal / sinner not do it again. So essentially there theres no need for punishment.

Besides, I heard that the bible demands that you get punishment from the state for any crime, even if you repent.
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Cyrizian



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
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Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repenting is to accept mercy. I could say "sorry wont do it again" But God and I both know that I probably will anyway. The only purpose of punishment is justice (to balance the scales). Unfortunately as long as there is sin there will be a need for punishment.

Quote:
Besides, I heard that the bible demands that you get punishment from the state for any crime, even if you repent.


I'm not sure where you got that.
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You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhuan told me that once
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Rhuan



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, you're misquoting me again. Maybe you have actually misremembered. But, I can tell you, I did not say that.
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i swear it was something similar
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Rhuan



Joined: 07 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something that perhaps sounded similar, but had a different meaning.

Btw, anusiya I forgive you for everything you have done to upset me, and I appoligise for anything I have done to upset you, (if you give me some specifics on something I have actually done that upset me, I'll appologise for it specifically)
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bokura wa itsudemo sakenderu


Last edited by Rhuan on Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Sat Sep 16, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

excellent you managed to understand the meaning behind my new sig! :p

thanks. you too.
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Cyrizian



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a reply to a muslim trying to convert a christian to islam. I thought it was so well written that I decided to post it here.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Dear Muslim,

I do not post these questions as a "proof" that Islam is false. I do not believe that is possible with a simple list of questions. Nevertheless, they are here to encourage discussion that the truth may be known.

Deeds

The Qur'an says "To those who believe and do deeds of righteousness hath Allah promised forgiveness and a great reward" (Surah 5:9).

Question: Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment?

Question: Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?

Forgiveness

The Qur'an says, "O ye who believe! Turn unto Allah in sincere repentance! It may be that your Lord will remit from you your evil deeds and bring you into Gardens underneath which rivers flow, on the day when Allah will not abase the Prophet and those who believe with him. Their light will run before them and on their right hands; they will say: Our Lord! Perfect our light for us, and forgive us! Lo! Thou art Able to do all things," (66:8-9). Notice how it says if you are sincere you may receive forgiveness.

Question: How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?

Question: Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you may receive forgiveness?

Question: If you say that you know you are sincere enough in your repentance before Allah, how do you know you are not deceiving yourself?

Question: Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?

Question: If you say yes, I honestly and humbly ask you, "Are you being prideful?"

Question: If you say you are not being prideful, then are you boasting in your sincerity?

Salvation

In Christianity, Jesus is God in flesh who paid for our sins on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). Because of that, we Christians are secure in Him and do not have to worry about doing enough good works to please God since we are saved by grace through faith in Him, (Eph. 2:8-9).

Question: Why should we Christians give up our guarantee of salvation in Jesus for the requirements of your Qur'anic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?

More Loving?

The Bible says that God is love (1 John 4:16) and that He loves all people (Matt. 5:43-48; John 3:16). The Qur'an never says that "God is love." In fact, the Qur'an says that Allah does not love unbelievers (2:98; 3:32).

Question: If Allah does not love unbelievers, can you say that Allah is love, especially if the Qur'an does not say it?

Question: If you say yes, that Allah is love, then why does he only love the Muslims and not all people?

Question: If you say Allah is love, is he more loving than the God of the Bible who loves all people?

No greater love...

In the Bible, Jesus said in John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In Christianity, the greatest act of love is performed by God Himself -- since Jesus is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14; Col. 2:9). Jesus is the one who fulfilled His own words on this. He laid His life down for us.

Question: What is the greatest act of love performed by Allah?

Question: If what Jesus said is true, then hasn't someone besides Allah performed the greatest act of love?

Question: Why do you, as a Muslim, want me to give up such a great love performed by God Himself (from a Christian perspective) for your belief in Allah who only loves people if they are Muslims?

Gabriel

Islam teaches that the Holy Spirit is Gabriel. In the Bible, the Holy Spirit lives in the Christians.

Question: If the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit, how can he dwell in us?

(Note: According to the Nestle Aland Greek New Testament Textual Apparatus, there are no textual variations any of the following biblical references. They are recorded and transmitted to us accurately.)
"Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you," (2 Tim. 1:14, NASB).
"Do you not know that you are a temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?" (1 Cor. 3:16, NASB).

Lying is okay?

Question: Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).

More holy?

Question: Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh?

In the above quote from the hadith, Muhammad advocated lying. The Christian God would never approve of lying. Does the god of Islam approve of lying? If not, then wasn't Muhammad wrong? If he was not wrong, then Allah approves of lying. Which God is more holy? The God of Christianity is far more holy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Question for Anusiya

If your Allah is less holy then my God, then why do you serve him?
_________________
You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. Have you read this: http://www.sufism.org/society/asma/index.html
Quote:
Al-Wadud 47 The Loving One


Yeah.

2.
Quote:
Question: Are you doing enough good deeds to receive salvation on the Day of Judgment?

Question: Are you doing all you can or are you relaxing in your dedication to Allah?

Yeah. Right.

Quote:
Question: How do you know you are sincere enough to be forgiven of Allah?

I don't. Although, to be honest, I doubt it.

Quote:

Question: Does it give you peace to know that even if you are very sincere that at best, you may receive forgiveness?

Yes.
The verse doesnt give the chance of recieving forgiveness - it simply states that 0 < chance < 1. That includes some absurd recurring 9.9 whatever.

Quote:
Question: Is your heart really good enough to muster enough sincerity before a Holy and Righteous God?

Probably not.
I should work on that ...

Quote:

Question: Why should we Christians give up our guarantee of salvation in Jesus for the requirements of your Qur'anic law when you yourselves don't even know if you have done enough good deeds to be saved on the Day of Judgment?

I'm not trying to convert you. I'm here because a) I'm trying my viewpoint across, and b) i severely dislike the IRI regime.

Quote:

Question: If Allah does not love unbelievers, can you say that Allah is love, especially if the Qur'an does not say it?

Oh hell, I dont know!

Quote:
Question: What is the greatest act of love performed by Allah?

Lets try ... creating us dudes in the first place Very Happy

Quote:

Question: Why do you, as a Muslim, want me to give up such a great love performed by God Himself (from a Christian perspective) for your belief in Allah who only loves people if they are Muslims?

Re-read my mix-and-match-of-different-gods-description-post.

Quote:
Question: If the angel Gabriel is the Holy Spirit, how can he dwell in us?

I have no idea who / what / why the christian holy ghost is (i doubt that that concept existss in islam), but regarding gabriel, he/she/it is the head angel.
that's pretty much it.

Quote:
Question: Was Muhammad wrong for advocating lying? Is Lying okay? "Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, "O Allah's Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka'b bin Al-Ashraf]?" The Prophet said, "Yes," Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing (i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, "You may say it," (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).

I havent heard that story. Something tells me its invalid.

Quote:

Question: Who is more holy, Allah or Yahweh?

Thats easy.
Equal holiness. At least, from where Im standing.

Quote:

If your Allah is less holy then my God, then why do you serve him?

Look about three lines up.
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