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U.S. is studying military strike options on Iran
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DvorahChavahYaeli



Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2007 6:42 am    Post subject: Bush is a practiced LIAR Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus and Oppenheimer,

Concerning these lovely speeches by Bush, in Prague and on the US Global Leadership Campaign, I would not be inclined to take anything that he says at face value. His attempts at a Jack Kennedy immitation are only a product of his speechwriters. He is using "NewSpeak".

An example of his disingenuous speech can be readily seen in his stance on illegal immigration. While grandstanding that we must have "rule of law", he, in practice, actually suspended the enforcement of the immigration law. The law as it stands makes felons of those who hire illegals and Bush's big business buddies, of course, can't be felons because they are too well-connected.


What does he say about border security? "We must secure our borders!"
What does he say about amnesty: ""We must not reward law-breaking!"
And yet, he says he cannot, will not secure the borders unless he gets this "comprehensive immigration reform bill" which gives immediate legal status to aliens who have broken the immigration law by coming here, used false documents, and stolen the ss#'s and identities of American citizens and legal residents. The so-called comprehensive immigration reform also gives complete immunity from prosecution of past offenses to business that have hired illegally and evaded taxes.

President Bush's much-used rhetoric, "we must secure the border" is completely disingenuous in itself. Bush is a proponent of the NAU, which calls for the erasing of our borders. He is a proponent of the Globalist agenda, which calls for the weakening and eventual dissolution of our national sovereignty.


http://www.augustreview.com/news_commentary/general/the_globalist_rule_of_law_2007061667/


Thus, through NewSpeak, creating legal status from illegal status and protection from prosecution for businesses is Not amnesty, suspension of the law for the benefit of big business is "Rule of Law", and securing the borders becomes the perpetual carrot, promised but never delivered.

What is Really Driving President Bush

I'm sure I'm not telling you anything you don't already know You know that Carter was the first president chosen by the Trilateral Commission. He had 19 members of the Trilateral Commission on his cabinet, including Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was a co-founder of the commission. And it just so happens that the Jihadists came to power in Iran during the Carter Administration.

What are the Globalist goals? Supposedly world peace, stopping world hunger and disease, international cooperation, elimination of racism; certainly things that we can all support. But their goals are not so benevolent as these "carrots" would make them appear. Their goal is a One World Government.


And what does any power wanting world domination need? OIL! Your Iranian oil is a good start.

http://www.augustreview.com/issues/globalization/the_global_elite%3a_who_are_they?_200511146/


The sad facts are that the American government is no longer controled by Americans. Our treasuries have been robbed by the Globalists and we are in serious debt. Illegal immigration has been purposely allowed in order to destabalize the United States so it will be easier to force this transition to the North American Union and the New World Order on the American people.


http://www.augustreview.com/issues/globalization/america_plundered_by_the_global_elite_2005051812/

In additon to this, the Bush family has been in the business of war profiteering for several generations. Consider grandpa Prescott Bush, who was involved in money laundering for the Nazi's. Papa Bush is now happily ensconced in the Carlysle Group, a conglomerate heavily invested in defense and oil contracts. Vice President Cheney's "former company" of Halliburton gets all reconstruction contracts for war torn areas.

These facts are easily verified so I will not provide the references for these statements. A quick google of the companies and the people will provide sufficient information.



Ms. Laura Rozen said,

Quote:
Since the Bush Administration announced that it would fund opposition groups, the Iranian government has arrested intellectuals, writers, and activists who have participated in conferences abroad that were sponsored by private NGOs, and accused them of being involved in American-backed efforts to overthrow the regime. Surely if the U.S. wanted to promote democracy in Iran, it would have been better not to discuss it so loudly. In making these high-profile announcements, perhaps the Bush Administration was trying to signal to Congress, the public and the Iranian diaspora that this is something it is committed to. The international consequences may not have been carefully thought out
.

Is President Bush is just so naive or stupid that he didn't realize his public declarations of his intention to support them would cause alot of the rsistance in Iran to be rounded up? Wouldn't it seem obvious that after the American President makes such a declaration that the Mullahs would then seek to round up the best and brightest of the resistors for complete suppression of any possible resistance? Was he just carried away with trying to look like the American HERO president? Or did he understand exactly what he was doing?

Are the presence of the resistors in Iran actually an obstacle to the Globalist Agenda?



Bush is not to be trusted. Please don't be fooled by glorious patriotic rhetoric. Look at what the man has been doing to the American Republic and the American people. Look at the chasm between his words and his actions. Look at whom he is associated with. Look at the rampant cronyism and the blatant war profiteering of his administration. And most importantly, look at what his indiscreet and ill-timed words have cost those of your countrymen caught in the crucible

Regards, Dvorahchavahyaeli
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Last edited by DvorahChavahYaeli on Tue Jun 26, 2007 7:20 am; edited 2 times in total
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DvorahChavahYaeli,

Never underestimate the danger of idiots gathered in large groups.
Including those who out of intellectual laziness, blame all the ills of the world today on one individual, GW Bush. The one fact that all conspiracy theorists fail to grasp is that the world today is far too interconnected for a handfull of people to control, let alone one person, regardless of status.

Since domestic US border issues are NOT the subject of discussion I will refrain from comment, save this: I live in a state that borders Mexico, and I can say with absolute certainty that you are flat mistaken about many things regarding these issues.

Oh yeah, and by the way....if dissidents get mistreated by the abomidible regime that pretends to be a legitimate government of the Iranian people, that blame rests soley on the pointy little heads of its leadership.....not with the United States government for supporting the legitimate aspirations of a people looking to shrug of the chains that bind them.

EJ
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DvorahChavahYaeli



Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Oppenheimer,

We idiots kicked some Royal Bush hindparts today, didn't we? Laughing
That's American Patriot power in action! We jammed the phonelines from 8:30am on, everyday, and filled the voicemails at night. Let the Senators know we are here, watching for their sneaky tricks; letting them know they are answerable to US, the American people.

Living in Little Juarez of the Colorado Rockies, I know very well of what I speak. Anyway, a more careful reading of my post would have informed you that immigration was NOT the subject of my post. I used it only as an illustration of the theme of my post which was to warn you of Bush's deceitful designs and use of NewSpeak. Bush's trustworthiness, or lack thereof, as well as his grandstanding, are quite relevant to the topic at hand, which I am well aware is America weighing the options of a military strike.

Intellectual laziness is epitomized in the person who would rather make a personal attack than present a counter argument. And it usually means they don't have one. If you think Globalism and the NAU are just conspiracy theories, you are out of touch. If you don't know that Bush is gung ho for the Globalist agenda, perhaps you'd do well to inform yourself of the very real attempt that is underway to undermine American sovereignty and bring our beloved country to her knees.

The patriot's first duty is to question and to stay alert to whatever might threaten her country. Naivete and emotional blinders have no place in protecting one's country. I understand your heart is in another country. I am here on this board for no other reason than to offer you my help to regain your country. I am a 10th generation American whose ancestors have fought in every American war since the French and Indian. This is the ONLY country I have and I'll defend it every day of my life.

Oh yeah, the analyst that you spoke so highly of is the one who raised the point of Bush's public announcement having caused more dissidents to be rounded up. She graciously provided him with an excuse. I'm only questioning more pointedly what his motivations were- thoughtless stupidity, oblivious grandstanding, or purposeful plotting? It's a question, not an answer.

Regards, Dvorahchavahyaeli
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
"Never underestimate the danger of idiots gathered in large groups."
-Oppie



MMMmmm, methinks you took my public service announcement a bit personally eh?

...(chuckle).

OK, if you wish to call yourself an idiot, please be my guest as I will second it, out of respect for your opinion of yourself.

Quote:
Intellectual laziness is epitomized in the person who would rather make a personal attack than present a counter argument.


Yeah, exactly. Seems you engage in inuendo and personal attack as perferred method of debate.

Quote:
Is President Bush is just so naive or stupid that he didn't realize his public declarations of his intention to support them would cause alot of the rsistance in Iran to be rounded up?


Quote:
And what does any power wanting world domination need? OIL! Your Iranian oil is a good start.


( Since you make assumption based on your own parroting of other's idelogical agenda, let me then simply clue you into a fact, since you haven't a clue who you are talking to.....I'm not Iranian, thus it's not "my" oil.)


If what you say is true, why on Earth would the US have given Kuwait back after Gulf war 1 ????

See, that one fact blows your whole premise of your anti-Bush blood for oil rant.

Gee, if it was some global hegemonic agenda as you suggest, I'd think we'd be appropriating by force, all of Iraq's oil today....and we'd be pumping gas @ less than a buck per gallon......but no....

Sorry, you'll have to do better than that....

P.S. You don't have the corner on patriotism here on this site bro....trust me on that one.

Quote:
.... immigration was NOT the subject of my post. I used it only as an illustration of the theme of my post which was to warn you of Bush's deceitful designs and use of NewSpeak.


Sure it was the subject, that's why you keep ranting about immigration, but it's not a relevent example for it is a completely separate issue, nor do I believe your premise in using it "as an example" has any validity in reality to describe the general malaise of your assertions.

Unless you are of Native American decent, you are the product of immigration yourself, enjoying the fruits of a nation built by immigrents, and your obvious bias:

Quote:
Living in Little Juarez of the Colorado Rockies, I know very well of what I speak.


...Has racial overtones that are not appropriate to the rules of discussion on this website forum.

However, you are welcome to fondle you illusions in peace, so long as they prove no harm to others.....The US Constitution does allow for that.

(chuckle)....
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daily Press Briefing
Tom Casey, Deputy Spokesman
Washington, DC
June 28, 2007

(excerpt)


QUESTION: On Iran, first of all, I don't know if you have any news on the
Americans that have been under detention. We haven't asked in a couple of days,
so if you do -- that's a general question. And specifically are you aware of an
interview that one of the people being detained, Parnaz Azima, gave to WTOP
earlier this week in which there was criticism of the Administration's
democracy efforts saying it was spawning a reaction by the government there,
calling it a very serious mistake. So I just wonder are you aware of that and
have any reaction to it?

MR. CASEY: Well, first of all, in terms of the status of the American citizens
that are being detained by Iran, no, unfortunately, I don't have any new
updates to provide you, Charlie. Again, these people don't pose any threat to
the regime and we continue to call for the Iranian Government to do the right
thing, to release them, to allow them to go back to their work and allow them
to go back to their families. Again, most of these people were in Iran in the
first place because they were visiting friends and family members there. I'm
not aware of the interview that she may have given.

Certainly, again, the Administration made its views clear concerning our policy
of support for democratic change not only in Iran but in the world at large. I
would also caution that interviews being given by any citizen who is under
house arrest, under threat of prosecution and unjustifiably being subject to
harassment by authorities in Iran may not be in a position to speak as freely
as they might want to.


(end excerpt)


See http://www.state.gov/r/pa/prs/dpb/ for all daily press briefings
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DvorahChavahYaeli



Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Location: Denver

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Oppenheimer,

As expected, you again have only personal attacks to offer. You still have not addressed the point of my original post. And you probably do well to avoid it, because you have no argument that will stand up. Especially since information [url]you[/url] provided as coming from a respected source, raises the question first.

[quote]Since the Bush Administration announced that it would fund opposition groups, the Iranian government has arrested intellectuals, writers, and activists who have participated in conferences abroad that were sponsored by private NGOs, and accused them of being involved in American-backed efforts to overthrow the regime.[color] Surely if the U.S. wanted to promote democracy in Iran, it would have been better not to discuss it so loudly. In making these high-profile announcements, perhaps the Bush Administration was trying to signal to Congress, the public and the Iranian diaspora that this is something it is committed to. The international consequences may not have been carefully thought out[/color]

I am relieved to learn that you are not Iranian, as I have experienced only graciousness and nobleness of spirit from these people so far. I would have expected your diversionary tactics of avoiding address of the point at hand to be beneath my Iranian hosts here. My original post, in which I mentioned "your oil" was addressed to yourself and Cyrus, who is obviously Iranian.

A "personal attack", as used in forum rules, is generally accepted to mean an attack by one poster upon another that focuses on the characteristics of the poster and offers insult to that person. Criticising President Bush's behavior and questioning its motive is not a "personal attack" in that sense.
Again, this only a diversionary tactic to take the interchange of ideas to a level of nonsense in order to avoid the real question I raised.

The one real argument that you offer, (and that on a side issue) that the US gave back Kuwait, is easily answered. The laws increasing the power of the executive branch(such as fast track) to act without congressional approval are not yet in an invulnerable position. The legal changes weakening our sovereignty are not yet completed. Awakening the public to the process is NOT something the Globalists wanted. They dealt with Kuwait in the most advantageous possible way to themselves at the time.

My contention was never that President Bush was the originator(i.e. to blame for) of all of this. He is only one of the presidents that has been involved, and it would seem, one of the more bumbling ones at that. Bush jr's missteps have caused Americans to wake up and begin to pay attention. My contention was that Bush has OTHER AGENDAS driving him, than what he mentions publically. That his words are NOT to be taken at face value.

So, my question remains unaddressed. Was Bush's announcement of his support for the resistors in Iran which DID result in the arrest of resistors,
AND Iranian Americans (per your post about Laura Rozen and your post today about Parnaz Azima's interview) motivated by thoughtless stupidity, oblivious grandstanding, or purposeful plotting to give him an excuse for the military option?
Care to address the question? Or was that disingenous spin by the Washington spokesman supposed to be the answer? Rolling Eyes Now he never said anything that could be interpreted as particular support for the Iranian dissidents, right? Rolling Eyes I guess that would make Laura Rozen and Parnaz Azima misinformed, huh? I think you are a little confused, bro.

regards,
Dvorahchavahyaeli
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twice now you've entertained an illusion that I posted something by Laura Rosen, well try the top of page 19 of this thread....you'll see for yourself....in fact I posted no comment on it at all up to this point....after it was posted by another member....who interviewed her.

No, I think it is you that is confused..on a lot of issues..The Islamic Republic of Iran has been targeting dissidents regardless of recent US democracy funding ever since they came to power in 79. Ask an Iranian if you don't believe me. It would continue to exist even if the US withdrew its support for democracy today.

Suggest you do give yourself a proper education into these matters, so as not to sound like you are talking out of your ass.

Then perhaps you'll find me a mite more patient with your self proclaimed superior idiocy. But hey, it's ok to be ignorant, just beware of opening your mouth and proving youself to be so.

Listen, if you want to further your education, you came to the right place as far as things Iranian goes. And no, I'm not nearly as nice as I could be about this because the stakes are so high....for everyone's kids, and the general future welfare of mankind. There isn't the time left to cut anyone slack if war is to be unnessesary for regime change to take place.

If it seems I'm giving you a hard time, you are correct.....but then I would be intellectually dishonest if I were to not offer to buy you a clue.

You might try reading a few of the some 1500 posts I've put on site, as well as other regulars who post here...and you'll find much food for thought within. I know many have, whether they agree with my thoughts and ideas or not and it's not that important to me if they do, so long as it helps my Iranian friends find their own solutions to the mess they are in.

Ultimately what works will be implemented by them, and what doesn't or hasn't worked will be discarded by the opposition community. Of this I am certain. What they are not certain about is whether they can trust the international community to do right by them, and that in itself is hamstringing their efforts. That and the inherent ideological divisions within the Iranian opposition community that have long hampered their ability to present a united front to both the regime and the global community. Even so, my friends and I have helped bring a great global awareness to fruition, and a perpetual spotlight remains on the mullahs as a result of many a patriot's efforts and sacrifice.

If you are indeed interested in the Iranian freedom movement, FREE IRAN PROJECT then you'd do well to take what I say without your ego getting bent out of shape via the truth of my words.

Rx: 1000 hrs of reading and call me in the morning.....(sic)

EJ
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DvorahChavahYaeli



Joined: 07 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Oppenheimer,

Wow! 1500 posts. I'm impressed! How long does it take to post? About 10 minutes? Let's see, that's 15,000 minutes divided by 60. Wow! 250 hours. Let's see, divided by 24hrs, that's 10.41 days of your life!! Devoted to the cause! Amazing self-sacrifice, I'd say. It is sooooo very tiring sitting on one's arse typing. And how many years have you been at this tremendous effort? Let's be generous and say it took 30 minutes to make every post. That would make it 31.25 days. That's a MONTH of your time! How may years did you say you've been at this?

As for poor idiot me, I have only 11 total posts. Well, partly because I make it my custom to read alot on a forum before I make a post. So I've been coming here nearly every night reading since I joined the forum in early June.

If you care to look them up, you'll find my earliest posts indicate an awareness that 1) Americans have a lot to gain by supporting the resistance 2) the problem of infighting among the resistance has been one of the factors holding back the ability to get serious support from congress.
You'll also notice my willingness to 1) try and get a phone campaign going to the Senators and 2) try to spread the ACTIVISM message to Christians, Messianic Jews and US Military families.

It doesn't take us idiots 3 years, or even 1000 hours of reading and pontificating to figure out what's going on and what action is needed.

I am part of an very large army of grassroots activists. We are fighters. Our forum right now is getting around 190,000 page views a day. I had the bright idea to introduce the Iranian Resistance subject and get some exposure among our activists. These are the same activists that just handed Bush his defeat and killed the amnesty bill. You've probably read that we SHUT DOWN the Senate phone lines with our demands for a no vote on the cloture.

But, you know, now that I've seen what kind of language the moderators allow you to use here, now that I've seen how you are allowed to make personal attacks on people who are only trying to help you understand what's happening in THIS country, I realize that it will never work. If I were to lead people over here to read up on the issue, they would just be attacked, and made to feel how superior you are because of all the many important posts and writings that you have made. These people are fighters, and I can see there would only be swordfights with a pompous ass like yourself.

You tried to bring in the big scary "race card" when I complained about our city now being occupied by half the population of Juarez. I'll bet you expected that to bring on defensiveness, like it does with those CA nuts that hang their naked white asses out of the trees to show how much they support the pals and the illegals. The jihadists' useful idiots.


Well, that just shows another reason why there won't be any alliances here. I'm still going to try and help bring American grassroots power to this issue, for OUR sakes and for the Iranians, who I still have a high opinion of, because of Cyrus' help to the Jews to rebuild the temple. I just won't be able to do it through THIS forum.

Quote:
The Islamic Republic of Iran has been targeting dissidents regardless of recent US democracy funding ever since they came to power in 79. Ask an Iranian if you don't believe me. It would continue to exist even if the US withdrew its support for democracy today


Of course they have been targeting dissidents since 1979. Is that what I need to read for 1000 hours to find out? not exactly your esoteric type of knowledge, bro. What you won't admit is that there has been a RECENT CRACKDOWN that was brought on by BUSH's ill advised public pronouncements. Parnaz Azema knows it. Laura Rosen knows it. The RECENT CRACKDOWN has been reported on Krsi, radio sedaye, and a host of other locations. But Mr. 1500 posts doesn't know it. And certainly doesn't want to hear it from the 11 post idiot.

Quote:
What they are not certain about is whether they can trust the international community to do right by them, and that in itself is hamstringing their efforts


International community is going to wave signs and then appease, appease, appease, all the while pontificating about how peaceful and sophisticated they are. Just like they always have. Their going to try and get the US to do everything for them, and if it comes to war, their going to expect the US to sacrifice its children to protect their scaredy behinds...just like always...while accusing us of every vile kind of racism and warmongering. Why? because it always works for them. Europe always seems to forget that if it wasn't for the US, (my uncles were fighter pilots who fought over Italy and flew into Germany on bombing missions) they'd be speaking German right now. Well, they'll all be speaking Arabic in a bit with their cute little towels on their heads, if the US doesn't bail their sorry appeasement behinds out of it.

You know very well that the Americans and the Israelis are the only people who are even remotely likely to step up to the plate to support a resistance militarily.
And I'm not talking about a pre-emptive strike, I'm talking about supporting a sudden coup that gets underway. If we had a president with half a brain, we could have avoided the present CRACKDOWN on the resistance. He put their lives in danger, and probably got many killed already. He should have kept his big showboating trap shut until the right moment arrived.

So, goodnight and goodbye, my friend. Continue to help your friends find support for their cause. I notice there are few active posters. Hmm...could it be your charm? Just a thought. I know all I need to know about this forum to understand that my plan will never work here. I have a principle against wasting time, so I won't continue to post here.

regards,
Dvorahchavahyaeli
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
You know very well that the Americans and the Israelis are the only people who are even remotely likely to step up to the plate to support a resistance militarily.
And I'm not talking about a pre-emptive strike, I'm talking about supporting a sudden coup that gets underway. If we had a president with half a brain, we could have avoided the present CRACKDOWN on the resistance. He put their lives in danger, and probably got many killed already. He should have kept his big showboating trap shut until the right moment arrived.


Good riddance, and don't let the door slam on the way out please.
See, what you think I know very well is not exactly your's to determine, and wonders never cease do they? The IRI would love for folks to believe exactly what you think, and you blindly pontificate as something I know very well, but actually you know I totally and completely disagree with it, because it is untrue. Yet you think you are owed any respect for spreading the regime's lies and excuses for their criminal conduct?

Bill yourself as some super lobyist....charade you are. I don't even need to check w/ some gov. sources to know that, because it's quite obvious that you are nothing more than a bullshit artist, if not on the payroll of the mullahs directly.

If you gave a real damn about Iranian freedom, you wouldn't let my words stop you, or feel insulted when I call your credibility into question.
You'd already be prepared to be properly vetted, knowing that trust is, and must be earned. By action, not words. Your website does not convince me that you are who you claim to be.

No, your plan won't work and sowing mistrust for US intentions among the opposition is obviously part of that. No, you don't get to do that on my watch, which is why I'm in your face about it , lady.

Rude? You ain't even had a taste yet.


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cyrus
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppie,
If you wish others to listen to your good points, questions, and reasons then please stop personal attacks, insults, answer good questions, focus on issues, listen to good points and reasons .
We live in very complex world with too many problems and very limited resources.

Watch this video and think How Big Are We?

How Big Are We When The Sun Become Just A Pixel In the Big Picture?
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyrus,

With all due respect, I reserve the right to defend my president and commander in chief from personal attack, innuendo, and from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I am sure you remember this excerpt from a certain proposal submitted in Oct. 2005, so I don't feel the need to moderate my stance in any way, nor compromise it for the sake of niceties.


Regards,

EJ

Quote:
In an interview with the New York Post Editorial Board September 15, 2005, Secretary Condoleezza Rice stated in answer to a question regarding the President’s position in support of the Iranian people’s aspirations for liberty:

“Well, the problem in Iran is that the train is going the other way right now. The hardliners have managed, I think, to – for the time being – silence any organized opposition and you have the sense that it’s difficult for the population, which is (inaudible) deeply dissatisfied with their government, but it’s difficult for the population to find someplace to adhere, you know, you need a focal point and I think they’re having -- there’s (inaudible) trouble in doing that.

But in Iran, we do have some democracy programs that we’re doing. They’re small and they’re doing them through nongovernmental organizations because we don’t want to give the government a reason to crack down on what little democratic activity there is in Iran.

The second point is that the Iranian people would – the United States Government is very popular with the Iranian people.”


Sir,

On one hand Secretary Rice has a point when she says that American support may give cause to the regime for crackdowns, but the reality is they don't need an excuse, and they are actively suppressing any and all dissent in Iran regardless of the level of American support to the point where in a few years there won't be an opposition in Iran because they'll all be in mass graves or in some hell-hole of a prison.
The point I must stress here in terms of American credibility with those seeking and badly needing our support and that of the international community is that there are no halfway measures that may prove effective. Halfway measures don’t produce results, whether that is on nuclear issues or human rights issues, or in regards to state sponsors of terrorism. Standing on principal cannot be with one foot in any case, including support for democracy.

As I look at this in all its aspects with regards to Iran, both with the people and the government as separate tracks, I’ll be very blunt in saying that the war of ideas as it pertains to support for democratic change cannot be won unless full tilt effort in concrete ways to hold the mullah’s regime to account along with total and uncompromising support is given to the Iranian people to effect change from within. Such support begins with a dialogue.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:26 pm    Post subject: In Search Of Truth Reply with quote

Oppie,
This Forum is in Search Of Truth without hidden agenda, supporting the voiceless, not defending any officials words and actions blindly based on James Madison vision.

cyrus wrote:

ActivistChat 2007 Guideline Framework And Vision Of Future

13. We are Free Iran Activists and Watch Group monitoring high government officials, Journalists , writers and scholars words and their actions based on the following direction from James Madison:
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men! over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions. "
The Federalist No. 51 (James Madison).



If and when Activist members of public Forum asks valid questions from officials then do you think you are really providing a good Service for President Bush by insulting members of public Forum .... ?
Please don't forget President Bush has more than 1000s of staff and major Media to defend his position.
1- Please Watch Video Clip: How Big Are We When The Sun Become Just A Pixel In the Big Picture?
2- Please Watch Video Clip: I Am Only a Child

Regards,
Cyrus

Oppenheimer wrote:
Cyrus,

With all due respect, I reserve the right to defend my president and commander in chief from personal attack, innuendo, and from all enemies, foreign and domestic.

I am sure you remember this excerpt from a certain proposal submitted in Oct. 2005, so I don't feel the need to moderate my stance in any way, nor compromise it for the sake of niceties.


Regards,

EJ

Quote:
In an interview with the New York Post Editorial Board September 15, 2005, Secretary Condoleezza Rice stated in answer to a question regarding the President’s position in support of the Iranian people’s aspirations for liberty:

“Well, the problem in Iran is that the train is going the other way right now. The hardliners have managed, I think, to – for the time being – silence any organized opposition and you have the sense that it’s difficult for the population, which is (inaudible) deeply dissatisfied with their government, but it’s difficult for the population to find someplace to adhere, you know, you need a focal point and I think they’re having -- there’s (inaudible) trouble in doing that.

But in Iran, we do have some democracy programs that we’re doing. They’re small and they’re doing them through nongovernmental organizations because we don’t want to give the government a reason to crack down on what little democratic activity there is in Iran.

The second point is that the Iranian people would – the United States Government is very popular with the Iranian people.”


Sir,

On one hand Secretary Rice has a point when she says that American support may give cause to the regime for crackdowns, but the reality is they don't need an excuse, and they are actively suppressing any and all dissent in Iran regardless of the level of American support to the point where in a few years there won't be an opposition in Iran because they'll all be in mass graves or in some hell-hole of a prison.
The point I must stress here in terms of American credibility with those seeking and badly needing our support and that of the international community is that there are no halfway measures that may prove effective. Halfway measures don’t produce results, whether that is on nuclear issues or human rights issues, or in regards to state sponsors of terrorism. Standing on principal cannot be with one foot in any case, including support for democracy.

As I look at this in all its aspects with regards to Iran, both with the people and the government as separate tracks, I’ll be very blunt in saying that the war of ideas as it pertains to support for democratic change cannot be won unless full tilt effort in concrete ways to hold the mullah’s regime to account along with total and uncompromising support is given to the Iranian people to effect change from within. Such support begins with a dialogue.
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That would of course be IF a valid question had been asked, rather than those premised on regime propaganda and the statements of folks subjected to various pressure by the regime.

You and I both know MSM reporters have been known to toe the regime line in articles , simply to be allowed to continue reporting from Iran.

Cyrus,

I called it on the money back in 2005,


Quote:
On one hand Secretary Rice has a point when she says that American support may give cause to the regime for crackdowns, but the reality is they don't need an excuse, and they are actively suppressing any and all dissent in Iran regardless of the level of American support to the point where in a few years there won't be an opposition in Iran because they'll all be in mass graves or in some hell-hole of a prison.



Opposition groups sought support, they got it (or at least as much as Congress would fund annually) Now you have political voices complaining about it, and blaming Bush's correct decision as the basis of justification for the regime's criminal behavior?

Man, that is so loony-tunes, it deserves the "Whiner's Award for ultimate asininity." (it's a personal award I give out each year to a political pundit-or politician of my choice)....

I called it on the mark here again as well, and you're watching it become manifest. Fellow asked me on the phone in follow-up Dec. 2005, "Are you patient?" I said, "Yes, but I cannot speak for others who've been waiting decades."


Quote:
As I look at this in all its aspects with regards to Iran, both with the people and the government as separate tracks, I’ll be very blunt in saying that the war of ideas as it pertains to support for democratic change cannot be won unless full tilt effort in concrete ways to hold the mullah’s regime to account along with total and uncompromising support is given to the Iranian people to effect change from within. Such support begins with a dialogue.


6 months later an Iranian idea (hat tip to SMCCDI) came to fruition because a concerned American gave a damn enough about the voiceless to push the case, you know this, you were a part of it, and Activistchat was among the list submitted as interested parties in that proposal.

Quote:
Oppie,
This Forum is in Search Of Truth without hidden agenda, supporting the voiceless, not defending any officials words and actions blindly based on James Madison vision.



Well Cyrus if it's truth you seek, and you know I have no hidden agenda, nor do I condone the innuendo of those who profess to know that the US does. Facts are one thing, but I've yet to see more than politically motivated tripe ad nauseum in this regard, and done so without regard to the real, quiet, dangerous and difficult work being done by many patriots both in my country and your's to bring the truth to the light of day.

If the official be correct in stating a truth, I will defend it because it is the truth Cyrus....as in this case.

So Cyrus, are you patient? Look, diplomacy is dead on its feet with "exhaustion", the ethical infants in Tehran have failed to graduate from the school of "behavior change", and they could care less about a political lollipop, or being grounded by sanction.

What do you figure is just around the next corner, and how much time do you figure you have left realisticly to effect change from within?

Realisticly Cyrus, if you were to ask me, I'd say about as long as it takes for some brainwashed state recruited suicide jihadi to get it into his head to launch a Chinese made C-802 anti-ship missile into the middle of Persian Gulf international shipping lanes.

Wait for it, you can bet the regime will blame the latest riots on the US as well.

You're probably going to see a little more than gunboat diplomacy in a few months because "Time out" will become "Time's Up." sooner rather than later.

Leave it to the regime to provide the needed provocation, and this discussion will then instantly become moot and irrelevent to circumstance.

As I previously suggested, you might think of changing the title of this thread post-pre-emptively to "THE US IS STUDYING REGIME CHANGE" because we already are.

Have a nice weekend,

EJ
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cyrus
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppie,
Due to the fact that I don’t have time for long debates therefore I don’t intend to enter any new endless discussion at this time.
Oppenheimer wrote:
That would of course be IF a valid question had been asked,


As I see it there are 3 possible choices:
1- If it is valid question please try to answer
2- If you feel invalid then you need to prove that is invalid question.
3- May choose not to answer the question.
In any discussion insulting is not considered as a right choice.

Thanks,
Cyrus
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In any discussion insulting is not considered as a right choice.


Heck Cyrus, we insult mullahs on a daily basis here on this forum, so now you say that one cannot address their propoganda in the same manner?

Look, if someone makes an assertion, innuendo or other insulting remark upon your friend, you're going to stand up for your friend if he's not present to stand up for himself , right? Right you are to do so.

Or your mother country too right? Course you would, it's human nature to give back what has been tossed in one's face.

'nuff said.

Be well my friend,

EJ
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