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Big 3 EU Foreign Policy (England, France, and Germany)
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flamingEGO
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:10 am    Post subject: ll Reply with quote

kerravon wrote:
stefania wrote:
Sorry , but why should the Iranians show gratitude towards the Brits? What did they do in favor of the Iranians?

Please tell me..


They liberated Iraq and Afghanistan, setting the stage for the liberation of Iran. There are now two enormously long borders that the Iranian military would need to defend, instead of previously where the US didn't have good access.

If you want to go back further in history, we'd all be under Nazi rule if they hadn't decided that it was better to have London raised to the ground than be neutral.

Similarly, USA risked nuclear annihilation in support of ungrateful foreigners.

The Iranians can also show gratitude to the British for not advocating the use of carpet bombing on Iran for the fact that Iran has been anti-western and supporting terrorism for decades. There is no "revenge is sweet" feeling in Britain. Be thankful. Other countries throughout history have been much less forgiving of their enemies.


Kerravon, so you're very PRO-British, despite the fact that throughout history British Policy and Actions have been far from noble - and have in fact caused many more problems than they solved. I'm not anti-British by any means, rather I am critical and wary.. As an American I am very concerned about our alliance with the British - and hope that America can persuade the Brits, more than the Brits can persuade the US. Fact is, that Iranians hate the British and much of the EU because of their support for the Mullahs.. This is not a conspiracy theory.. When Iran is free, the Europeans know that there will be a backlash on them and that a new Iranian Government will be very PRO-US and the EUropeans will have some explaining to do.. That's why the Euro will do everything in their power to prvent that situation from every coming about..

Iranians will never thank the British Government until they get their hands off of their country and stop supporting the Mullahs..
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerravon wrote:
stefania wrote:
Sorry , but why should the Iranians show gratitude towards the Brits? What did they do in favor of the Iranians?

Please tell me..


They liberated Iraq and Afghanistan, setting the stage for the liberation of Iran. There are now two enormously long borders that the Iranian military would need to defend, instead of previously where the US didn't have good access.

If you want to go back further in history, we'd all be under Nazi rule if they hadn't decided that it was better to have London raised to the ground than be neutral.

Similarly, USA risked nuclear annihilation in support of ungrateful foreigners.

The Iranians can also show gratitude to the British for not advocating the use of carpet bombing on Iran for the fact that Iran has been anti-western and supporting terrorism for decades. There is no "revenge is sweet" feeling in Britain. Be thankful. Other countries throughout history have been much less forgiving of their enemies.



As an Iranian/American I ask you to please question the British government and ask them why they continue to support an illegitimate regime.. When you have the answer / please come back and tell us..

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redemption



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Quick Background Info. Reply with quote

kerravon wrote:
Prof. Norman Livergood wrote:
According to Professor Norman D. Livergood with impressive educational background (Ph.D., Yale University, 1961, Philosophy, Ph.D., Union Institute, 1989, Artificial Intelligence, .......) in the following URL
http://www.hermes-press.com/impintro1.htm states:
"In 1979, the Standard Oil-backed Shah of Iran was thrown out by a British-backed coup and the long-time British asset, Ayatollah Khomeni, put into power.
When the new British-controlled regime in Iran came into power"
The above statement by Professor Norman D. Livergood clearly states that the so called Islamic Revolution by vast network of Ayatollahs and Clerics were clearly a complex hidden coup by British intelligence with ordinary Iranian people participation for achieving more political freedom therefore part of British government (Secret Society, Queen husband, Prince Charles .... ) are completely responsible for Khomeni (British Agent) terrorist regime actions, human rights violation, Genocide .... in past 25 years and Iranian people have every rights to go to any International Court against England Secret Society for England and Mullahs crimes against humanity.
The corrupt oil and other contracts between MUllahs and Britain in past 25 years and American Hostage crisis by Khomeni (British Secret agents) are supporting the above facts. England is not true friend of U.S.


You can add this to:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp

It is more indicative of you, than Britain, that you would rather believe some conspiracy theory, than the inescapable fact that Britain stood up to the Nazis, the Soviets, and liberated Afghanistan and Iraq. It is so much easier to blame the UK than blame the Iranian people for going out en-masse and staging a revolution in favour of a mad-man, isn't it?

I can tell you who is no friend to US, UK, Australia, other western countries, democracy, freedom, and Iran. YOU.

And quite frankly, with the Iranians already blaming everyone except themselves for their predicament, even BEFORE the liberation has even begun, I'm sure the west will have the "pleasure" of seeing yet another bunch of ungrateful foreigners stamping their foot demanding the world.

At some point, we need to throw in the towel.


Actually America was the main liberating force.. Why are most of the soldiers killed American? Why are not many British forces killed - perhaps British are sitting in the peaceful zones doing ****, while American GIs are getting shot at in the danger zones..
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redemption



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kerravon wrote:


2. You expect the UK to care more about the 3 people who failed to meet the conditions for asylum, than about their own troops who will sacrifice their lives cleaning up the self-created Iranian mess?


Uhh Excuse me? Self-Created Iranian Mess..? I'm not going to read any further and advise you not to put such worthless **** in this forum.. Perhaps some Admin will come along and clean it all up.. You think the revolution was self-created.. Jesus you are misinformed.. The British and US jointly got rid of the Shah through one of the biggest misinfo/psychological operations/propoganda campaign in history --> what put the Mullahs into power.. This is not what the Iranian people wanted - so I definitely suggest you cease such remarks and perhaps educate yourself a bit more on the topic..
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England Terror Master
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:24 pm    Post subject: Britain is in Control of Terror Masters Reply with quote

American Visitor wrote:
Redemption,

I agree with you. Some of the Europeans have done all they can to embarras and humiliate the US and president Bush in the push for freedom in Iraq. They don't seem to have had any change of heart so far. The British may come around however. They have helped us in Iraq.


I am not sure the British help is real, in the case of Iraq the big 3 EU were united against U.S. to discredit U.S. In this scenario France and Germany acted as bad Cop and Brits as a good Cop from EU and in return probably Blair got some promise from Bush Admin not to help Iranian people and oppositions to free Iran from Mullahs. From what we know today from public Media, the British provided fabricated bad intelligence embarrassing Bush Admin and U.S. …..
Another reason that the British helped U.S. at the surface is that the Brits know for fact that Mullahs regime will be removed from power soon or later and in future there is no place for Britain in Iran therefore they are trying to create another British puppet Islamic regime in Iraq. All top Mullahs like Khameni, Rafsanjani, Khatami …. are part of vast British spy and terrorist network. The British Secret society (Queen husband, Charles….) (terror master) are sitting at the top of Islamic Terrorist Network hierarchy. The order of terror and bombing often come from the British Secret society and will be executed by Mullahs in Iran, and if the Mullahs get into trouble with U.S. or other countries the British government will help them out, follow Jewish Center bombing in Argentina by Clerics in Iran and see how Blair and others help the regime to avoid big international crisis. Ask why over 600 American soldiers killed in Iraq during last 12 months while British forces having a good time in the Basra region? The British big plan is to drive the American forces out of the region and then install another Islamic regime like Iran in Iraq, cheap oil and the money for cheap oil goes to British banks, the British Secret Society is dreaming to create another Empire by using Islamists Terrorist Network. If the Islamic British Mafia regime is not removed from power, we will see more bombing in Iraq, Israel and Bush will loose election. The British Secret Society is in love with the Islamic terrorist regime, that is what American public do not know.
Is British government change their dirty evil policy in the Middle East?
I am not sure. Only when they have no other choice and American Admin will stand very strong against British dirty games, Bush biggest mistake was allowing the Brits to participate in liberation of Iraq and not to solve Iran problem before Iraq. Freedom loving Iranian people are concerned regarding the British forces in Iraq and Persian Gulf. The Britain do not have good deed in the region.
Axis Of Evil in the Middle East = Britain is the Axis and Evil are Clerics and Islamists

Iranians and freedom loving Americans should be concerned regarding British forces activity in Iraq and their possible dirty Islamic Clerical plots against Iranian freedom movement and US. As long as Islamic regime in Iran is in power and there is any British influence in the Middle East it is hard to imagine any road map to peace and prosperity.

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Rob..NC



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[color=red]...mmm,where`s the BBC,this story seems the type they would jump on....pondering Question
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George Orwell
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:31 pm    Post subject: British Animal Farm Novel by George Orwell Reply with quote


The Second Invasion of Islam was by Khomeni along with British blessing with the goal to plunder Iran's resources. Khomeni and his team of SS Clergymen (Khameni, Rafsanjani, Khatami ....) succeeded with the slogan of freedom, liberty and free oil for all, in deceiving the masses with the help of BBC Farsi. Khomeni's profile (described in detail by Dr. Masud Ansari's Book: 67 Massacre) is very similar to that of Saddam Hussein. Khomeni, the most deceitful British agent would never have been able to deceive the Iranian people without the help and blessing of the complex British and French advisors, as well as their secret services and they are equally responsible for Iran's disaster. As a result of this second invasion by fanatic Islam, over the last two decades, Iran has suffered over 1 million war casualties, the destruction of many cities, thousands of political executions and prisoners, the rape and execution of young girls in prison, the stoning of women, the loss of social freedoms, the theft of billions of dollars by Rafsanjani , SS Clergymen and his terror Mafia gangs, a massive exodus of Iranian refugees throughout the world, the hostage crisis, and the demise of a 200 year old friendship between Iran and US, reducing Iran's status from most advanced developing country with countless contributions to world history not to mention founding the first declaration of human rights, to the ugly International Islamic Terrorist Mafia Support Headquarters! Today, Iranians throughout the world are making their voices heard, from every corner of Iran and from every countries abroad, the Iranian people are telling the world they no longer need Islam and the Mullahs.

The repressive Mafia clerical dictatorship regime in Iran (British Virus) is based on British Animal Farm Novel by George Orwell. "We pigs (Islamic Clerical Mafia regime in Iran and their supporters Britian, France, German governments) are brainworkers. The whole management and organization of the farm depend on us. Day and night, we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples." While this swinish brotherhood sells out the revolution, cynically editing the Seven Commandments to excuse their violence and greed, everyone once again left hungry and exhausted, no better off than in the days when humans ran the farm. "
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Rob..NC



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolling Eyes
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kerravon



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: ll Reply with quote

flamingEGO wrote:
Kerravon, so you're very PRO-British, despite the fact that throughout history British Policy and Actions have been far from noble - and have in fact caused many more problems than they solved. I'm not anti-British by any means, rather I am critical and wary.. As an American I am very concerned about our alliance with the British - and hope that America can persuade the Brits, more than the Brits can persuade the US. Fact is, that Iranians hate the British and much of the EU because of their support for the Mullahs.. This is not a conspiracy theory.. When Iran is free, the Europeans know that there will be a backlash on them and that a new Iranian Government will be very PRO-US and the EUropeans will have some explaining to do.. That's why the Euro will do everything in their power to prvent that situation from every coming about..

Iranians will never thank the British Government until they get their hands off of their country and stop supporting the Mullahs..


I'm not so much pro-British as pro-freedom. In Australia, some left wing nutcases tell me if I'm so pro-American why don't I piss off to America. I ask them what on earth gave them the impression I was more pro-American than pro-Australian and of course they have nothing. I'm in that situation again. Show me why I am more pro-British than pro-Polish. The Poles stood up to the Nazis, and the Poles came to Iraq, as soon as they had been released from Soviet bondage.

Oh, and the person who said that I thought foreigners were anyone not of pure English descent, read and weep. The Poles are not of English descent. Foreigners to me are the people who appear on TV (or on forums) complaining because the rest of the world isn't coming "on cue" to clean up their self-created mess, give them lots of money, will shoot them when they do come (just for the hell of it presumably), and are absolutely convinced that they bear no responsibility for the pig sty they made of their own country.

As for you personally being "wary" about the British. I don't know what to say to that. I am more used to people like Iraqis being "wary" that the British/US are there to "steal oil" despite overwhelming evidence that they're doing nothing more than helping the Iraqi people be free from a repressive regime.

As for the British supporting the Mullahs. They're not. Any more than the US is supporting Ayatollah Sistani and associated idiots implement sharia law. Any more than the US forced Karzai to make Afghanistan an "Islamic State", because it wants it to fail, rather than implement modern standards of separation of church and state.

All these nefarious activities ascribed to the decent countries of the world are completely sick.

If you want to know what the British want for Iran, ASK THEM. I know exactly what the answers will be, they're the same answers my own government would give.

Would you like to see the Ayatollah accept all candidates for the election instead of vetoing some? Yes.

Would you like the Iranians to be able to change the constitution via referendum? Yes.

Would you like the Mullahs to stop raping women? Yes.

Would you like the elimination of the position of Grand Ayatollah for life? Yes.

ASK THEM. Ask anyone in Britain. The British people are as much in favour of democracy as any other westerner.

And I am telling you. These Iranians who are anti-UK on the slightest hint of a policy they don't approve of (ie trying to change the Iranian government from within) will equally turn on America at the slightest provocation too.

The Somalis welcomed the Americans as they landed. Before long they were shooting them.

The UK/US alliance is based on less fickle ground. Even if some people in the US appear to be as unappreciative of British support as Somalis were of US food. Go figure.
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kerravon



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

redemption wrote:

As an Iranian/American I ask you to please question the British government and ask them why they continue to support an illegitimate regime.. When you have the answer / please come back and tell us..


First of all, the regime is no more illegitimate than say Libya. And I can tell you that if there is a UN resolution to forcefully topple Libya, at the moment, no country in the world will stick its neck out and agree to that.

Secondly, e.g. with Libya, the regime is not supported by the US (e.g.). It is neither supported nor unsupported. It simply exists. A very large chunk of the world is comprised of dictators. No government is calling for them to all be toppled. The on-the-ground reality is simply dealt with, as it has throughout history.

So now the specific case of UK dealing with Iran (no different from the US dealing with Saudi Arabia). Trade with dictators with oil is a fact of life. There was a time when the UK used to keep these territories as colonies, so it didn't need to deal with "independent dictators". But these colonies insisted that they could run their own affairs. This is what the people wanted, to be "free" to live under their own dictators instead of under the oppressive limey jackboot.

So, dictators are dealt with. Just because you "changed your mind" and decided that the "latest dictator" YOU ENTHUSIASTICALLY INSTALLED because you "knew better than us" and our "stupid" liberal democracies, is no justification to complain to us.

This problem is entirely of your own making. I suggest that if you want help from foreigners to come and bail you out of your self-created mess, you spend less time abusing a sovereign country's immigration policy towards economic refugees, and spend more time asking politely for help.

Of course, I don't expect ungrateful foreigners to understand the concept of asking politely for help. Which is probably why the western forces are very reluctant to help out yet more ungrateful foreigners yet again.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what we should do about Venezuela now, or Iran when it is in the exact same situation. In the same way that Venezuela is already blaming all its woes on the US, we'll see exactly the same thing from the Iranians.

Hell, believe it or not, an Indian (from India) told me point blank that the US was holding India back from progressing because it didn't want India to dominate South Asia.

The fact that Indians keep voting for governments with crappy economic policies has nothing to do with it of course.

So yeah. You can see the Iranians already whinging about the UK, before they've even been liberated (by forces that will most likely include the UK, despite the "fact" that the UK supposedly supports the mullahs). So don't expect any alleged pro-US sentiments (watch out for half the country shooting at you during the invasion) to last for long. The invasion should happen regardless of all these factors.

I would like the whole world to be like India, where we can clearly see that the people are in charge of their own destiny so that they only have themselves to blame when they think they know better. Of course they will turn around and start abusing the western powers, especially the US (more of a scapegoat than the British in today's world).

However, eventually, after some decades, they will probably wake up to themselves, do a bit of introspection, and decide that they should take personal responsibility for their own problems.

Note that Yugoslavia is to some extent doing this re-awakening.

Here, read this:

http://www.b92.net/feedback/misljenja/press/responsibility.php

Even in the link, the word: RESPONSIBILITY.

The fact that they're doing this just years after being bombed potentially bodes well for the future. Eastern Europe is looking good. Russia is not looking good. Iran? Not looking good at the moment, but the comments here are not necessarily indicative of those in the homeland. Expats tend to stay the same while the homeland changes.

I am certainly in favour of liberating Iran in order to find out what the people really think/want. After that, they can stew in juices clearly of their own making. And they are free to wake up to themselves whenever they want.

I'm not expecting to be asked nicely to help the Iranians to be liberated. I'm expecting to be berated before liberation, then shot at during liberation, then blamed after liberation. That's life, live with it. Smile

History will show the truth. Just like history shows the truth about Vietnam:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/pacepa200402260828.asp

And Vietnam's sick position in this picture:

http://www.freedomhouse.org/pdf_docs/research/freeworld/2003/map2003.pdf

I hope this answers your question.
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Avoiding Facts
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 7:40 pm    Post subject: Not stating facts Spinning Reply with quote

kerravon wrote:
As for the British supporting the Mullahs. They're not.

Many of your statements like the above have no value unless you show us the facts that the British are not supporting the Mullahs and they did not help Ayatollahs against Shah of Iran. You are master of spinning to avoid facts.

Quote:
So now the specific case of UK dealing with Iran (no different from the US dealing with Saudi Arabia). Trade with dictators with oil is a fact of life. There was a time when the UK used to keep these territories as colonies, so it didn't need to deal with "independent dictators". But these colonies insisted that they could run their own affairs. This is what the people wanted, to be "free" to live under their own dictators instead of under the oppressive limey jackboot.


End justify the means.
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kerravon



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Not stating facts Spinning Reply with quote

Avoiding Facts wrote:
kerravon wrote:
As for the British supporting the Mullahs. They're not.

Many of your statements like the above have no value unless you show us the facts that the British are not supporting the Mullahs and they did not help Ayatollahs against Shah of Iran. You are master of spinning to avoid facts.

Quote:
So now the specific case of UK dealing with Iran (no different from the US dealing with Saudi Arabia). Trade with dictators with oil is a fact of life. There was a time when the UK used to keep these territories as colonies, so it didn't need to deal with "independent dictators". But these colonies insisted that they could run their own affairs. This is what the people wanted, to be "free" to live under their own dictators instead of under the oppressive limey jackboot.


End justify the means.


You can't prove a negative. YOU have to provide evidence that the British support the Mullahs. However, I know exactly what you're going to do. You're going to say that "normal trade with a dictator" = "support".

As for the end justifies the means, not sure what you're talking about. You want the freedom to run your own affairs - you got it. Now is the time to take personal responsibility for your own mess.
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targetX
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:08 pm    Post subject: h Reply with quote

Kerravon, you're a piece of **** for blaming the Iranian people for creating "their own mess".. GO spread your bullshit in another forum!
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kerravon



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: h Reply with quote

targetX wrote:
Kerravon, you're a piece of **** for blaming the Iranian people for creating "their own mess".. GO spread your bullshit in another forum!


What concerns me more is how many of them are willing to shoot western liberators being brought in to clean up your mess.
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Avoid Him
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 08, 2004 9:09 pm    Post subject: Re: h Reply with quote

kerravon wrote:
targetX wrote:
Kerravon, you're a piece of **** for blaming the Iranian people for creating "their own mess".. GO spread your bullshit in another forum!


What concerns me more is how many of them are willing to shoot western liberators being brought in to clean up your mess.


Kerravon poor logic, avoiding facts, jumping around, not focusing on one subject are diversion technique to avoid people to learn about the truth regarding British hidden agenda in the Persian Gulf region. We need to avoid him because he does not add any value to our discuusion.
Britain is not considered as true Liberator but U.S. is the true Liberator. No one has sent invitation card for British forces, they can go back to their country.
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