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Demonstrations in East Kurdistan
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 506
Location: Scandinavia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 6:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurdistan wrote:
we dont want to be a part of persia. we are kurds , and we want to live free in our dear kurdistan.


Kordestan is a part of IRAN, not Pars.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:48 am    Post subject: You Do Not Know History Reply with quote

kurdistan wrote:
we dont want to be a part of persia. we are kurds , and we want to live free in our dear kurdistan.
And please give me a break, u can compare mid-east dictatorships with EU. They are humans, you are not.

bejit kurd u kurditan
NB: Gar kurdistan nabashad sare man mabad


Wake Up

Old Europe Strategy, Historical Facts

In the year 1884, a bunch of Rich Old White Europeans representing all the great conqueror nations of Europe get together in Berlin at Chancellor Bismarck's request.
There, they hatch a plan, mapping out the best possible way to complete the task of colonizing Africa (http://campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/Africa/BerlinConf.CP.html), subjugating its peoples and stealing its vast store of natural riches.
Their plan succeeds.
The result? Barely four generations later, huge chunks of Africa are smoldering, blasted dead-zones where warlords play musical chairs on each other's corpses, and the security guards (mercenaries) who patrol Western-owned diamond mines, gold mines and oil fields basically lord it over much of the continent.
Soon, even those hired thugs won't be needed, as the laboratory-spawned AIDS virus does for Africa's native population what smallpox-infected blankets did for the indiginous peoples on the American


Islamic Clerical Mafia Regime is created by England and supported by the EU Big 3 to plunder all Middle East resources. The EU Big 3 Are Responsible for World War I, World War II, Killing 6 million civilian Jews and creating seeds of hatered and terror in the Middle East children. With Unity and Solidarity Should Free Our Homeland from Islamists Evil Virus.

"Human beings are all members of one body.
They are created from the same essence.
When one member is in pain,
The others cannot rest.
If you do not care about the pain of others,
You do not deserve to be called a human being."

A Quote from Famous Persian Poet Saadi Shirazi
( 13th century Persian poet, from Shiraz the birthplace of Ms. Ziba Kazemi)
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famousefoes
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:49 am    Post subject: d Reply with quote

kurdistan wrote:
we dont want to be a part of persia. we are kurds , and we want to live free in our dear kurdistan.
And please give me a break, u can compare mid-east dictatorships with EU. They are humans, you are not.

bejit kurd u kurditan
NB: Gar kurdistan nabashad sare man mabad


Are you a regime spy... Wink
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Diyako the Median
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 1:05 pm    Post subject: Shah of Iran and the fake dyansty Reply with quote

Reze shah gave the title of pahlavi which has nothing to do with him. He was a regular officer who the legendary Simko Agha treated him like garbage. Reze shah was afraid of him, that was your great shah.
By the way the pahlavi languyage and pahlavi people were Kurds still living in the iraqi faily Kurds. They were the ral pahlwans or oahlavi and not Persians. Even in the time of Cyrus the great who betrayed his own median grand father, that is what persian are (traitors), even in that time there was a destinction between medes and persian. He was always called the king of medes and persians. we had an empire(the median one) before you had your own. you build the great cyrus empire with our efforts. with the brave median cavalries. So don't tell me Kurdistan joke.
It's just a new term Kurd instead of mede, mah, mad. it's like italian instead of roman. we are better of without you. but you arent . you will lose a real strong brave men in your side. but we can accept this slavery forever. We are still different. middle persian or pahlavi is more realted to Kurdish than Persian.

Be wise and respect our choice, you can't call a dutch a european. you can fool us by calling us itanian. We ARE KURDS FROM HOLY KURDISTAN
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 506
Location: Scandinavia

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Shah of Iran and the fake dyansty Reply with quote

Diyako the Median wrote:
Reze shah gave the title of pahlavi which has nothing to do with him. He was a regular officer who the legendary Simko Agha treated him like garbage. Reze shah was afraid of him, that was your great shah.
By the way the pahlavi languyage and pahlavi people were Kurds still living in the iraqi faily Kurds. They were the ral pahlwans or oahlavi and not Persians. Even in the time of Cyrus the great who betrayed his own median grand father, that is what persian are (traitors), even in that time there was a destinction between medes and persian. He was always called the king of medes and persians. we had an empire(the median one) before you had your own. you build the great cyrus empire with our efforts. with the brave median cavalries. So don't tell me Kurdistan joke.
It's just a new term Kurd instead of mede, mah, mad. it's like italian instead of roman. we are better of without you. but you arent . you will lose a real strong brave men in your side. but we can accept this slavery forever. We are still different. middle persian or pahlavi is more realted to Kurdish than Persian.

Be wise and respect our choice, you can't call a dutch a european. you can fool us by calling us itanian. We ARE KURDS FROM HOLY KURDISTAN


I dare you to find one scientific and objectiv source that doesn't call Kurds a part of the Iranian family.
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California

PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I SECOND THAT DARE!!!!
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chava



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:19 pm    Post subject: thank you for your replies Reply with quote

thank you all for your responses. i always enjoy discovering the intentions of those who oppose us. such knowledge always validates my suspicions and confirms my righteous desires for serhildan (uprising) aiming for the goal of independence. today, besides the unrest in iranian-occupied kurdistan, we are fortunate to witness the beginning of serhildan in syrian-occupied kurdistan.

i will confess something. . . i have to admire the attitude of the ba'athists in syria. at least they are honest about their hatred of us, denying us any citizenship and thus disenfranchising us totally. this gives us nothing to lose, no false promises of unity, no calling us "mountain turks" or perhaps, more fitting for this forum, "mountain iranians." syrian hatred is at least pure and honest. such hatred makes us very, very hungry.

forgive me, i'm digressing. . . on to business.

i didn't realize there were such things as iranian kemalists, with nighmares of kurdish "bogeymen" that no longer exist. PKK?!! where have you all been?!! yo, wake up, rip! there is no pkk anymore except that which is enshrined in our hearts, the memory of our martyrs burning brightly as a strong light that strenghtens us and guides us on our path. if this causes degeneracy then believe me, dear friends, i am not isolated in my degeneracy. there are far more of us than our twenty million brothers and sisters in the north. . . we are everywhere and are made up of those kurds from ALL of occupied kurdistan and with our non-kurdish friends around the world.

if you were familiar with the statements of kadek and now kgk, you would know these congresses have stated a willingness to work with those states in which kurdistanis live to achieve full and equal civil rights for the kurdistanis:

"KONGRA-GEL does not aim at dismantling the states in which Kurds live. Its stance towards these states will depend on their receptiveness to the Kurdish issue. The People's Congress does not aim at division or separation; to the contrary it aims at a contemporary democratic union respecting the unity of country and state. It believes that this approach responds to the vital needs both of the Kurds and of the neighbouring nation states." (from the founding document of the kongreya gele kurdistan, 15 november 2003, http://www.kurdishinfo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=345 ) of course i'm in agreement with the leadership.

oh, you have a problem with the legitimacy of the kgk? this statement was released from south kurdistan during the congress back in november. wasn't it nice of the americans to allow our representatives passage to the congress from all parts of the world? wasn't it nice of them to greet us at the borders of iraq, to see that all our travel documents were in order and to wish us a happy visit to south kurdistan, the land they too love?

in your responses you proclaim "unity, unity, unity!" and yet you never once acknowldege us by using the words "kurd" or "kurdistani." no, but you mention kurdistan with contempt, ". . . not some kurdistan joke!" you mention all YOUR dead, all YOUR suffering under YOUR mullahs. . . be honest, who allowed khomeini back into iran with all his false promises and his absurd talk of religion. how many are you? overthrow your mullahs yourselves, but don't speak to us about mullahs. . . for us they are the same as monarchs.

monarchs. . . you mention the name of the murderer of qazi mohammed and of so many of qazi mohammed's family and supporters. let me ask you, is this your god that you fall down and worship him and his descendants? if so, you proclaim clearly your enmity with all of us, the kurdistanis, no matter where we are, and at the same time you proclaim your enmity with secular democracy. secular democracy cannot, by its egalitarian nature, coexist in a shared space with monarchy and idol-worship and therefore your inconsistency is clear.

your scientific views of the relationship between kurdistanis and iranians are reminiscent of the darwinism of the european fascists of the twentieth century (and i might add the turkish fascists, the kemalists, the anachronism of the twenty-first century), in which these fascists attempted to classify "race" according to linguistic terms like "indo-aryan" versus "semitic" (i will leave it to you to guess exactly which european fascists it is that i refer to here).

what brilliant pseudoscience that dazzles the ignorant mind! your use of a linguistic argument to illustrate the intimate--and dare i say it, "brotherly"--relationship to the people of kurdistan can be used to "prove" that i enjoy some kind of intimate, "brotherly" relationship with the british royal family because i speak english. you all may be the experts on the pedigree of the pahlavi dynasty, but you all need to rethink your ideas about science. recent genetic studies prove that the kurdistanis are most closely related to jews and armenians, the original inhabitants of the northern middle east ( http://www.kurdnet.net/www.kdp.info/reports/reports_detail.asp?strLanguage=English&intReportNr=1625 ).

in light of the genetic evidence, since we are the original inhabitants of the land going back millenia, it is impossible that any part of kurdistan belongs to any other nation. we were there first. you newcomers, iranians (persians, whatever), turks and arabs, have occupied us. YOU have been the cause of our blood watering the ground of kurdistan, sanctifying it and more tightly binding us to it. you have inflamed our love for our land, a love ". . . as fierce as death, it's jealousy as bitter as the grave. even its sparks are a raging fire, a devouring flame. great seas cannot extinguish love, no river can sweep it away. . ."

sure, sure, it's the fault of the europeans. . . in 1918 "a bunch of Rich Old White Europeans representing all the great conquerer nations of Europe" got together, indeed, and they created a bunch of nation states with complete disregard for the ethnicities forced together on the ground. thus, czechoslovakia. thus, yugoslavia. thus, iraq., thus, turkey. thus, iran. thus, syria. oh, but look. . . czechoslovakia no longer exists, yugoslavia no longer exists, and the days of iraq are numbered, berxwedan gives rise to serhildan in iran and syria in the last week. . . all that the european conquerer did to arrange ethnicities and geography to fit conveniently into their colonial plans are falling. all of them! the status quo that we have suffered for so long is crumbling.

don't think that your patronizing attitude to us, your imitation of the european colonialist's self-serving solicitude for the native--for OUR OWN GOOD, naturally--will fool us. we do not want to be part of any patronizing society that marginalizes us, impoverishes us, imprisons us, slaughters us for the sake of our beautiful, resource-rich land. you would be nothing without kurdistan, just as the slaveholders of the american south were nothing without their slaves.

without sincere concern for our people that guarantees us all our dignity and rights as human beings, and with our controlling of and just recompense for the use of our natural resources, YOU will never rest because you do not care about OUR pain. . . i'll leave it to you to finish my version of your poem.

to quote jim morrison:

"This is the end, Beautiful friend
This is the end, My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again

SERHILDAN!
HER BIJI KURDISTAN!

p.s. oh, by the way. . . certain of you need to correct the gender of your personal pronouns when referring to me as the antecedent. have a nice day Smile
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Cyrus the Great History
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 10:59 pm    Post subject: Cyrus the Great Brief History Reply with quote

Cyrus the Great Summary (590 BC-529 BC)

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Cyrus the Great (590 BC-529 BC)
Cyrus the Great was the founder of the Archaemenian dynasty and the Persian Empire. Cyrus' military victories eventually put him in possession of the largest empire in the world at that time. No doubt he was a remarkably humane ruler for his time. Certainly he has achieved his greatness not by words but by hard and difficult choices, actions, and sacrifice. Without any doubt all the above selected criteria in regard to Cyrus the Great is true. Even the Greeks, who for a long time considered the Persian Empire to be the chief threat to their own independence, never ceased to regard Cyrus as a thoroughly admirable ruler. His policy towards the people of his empire was one of tolerance and understanding, as reflected in his authorization of the rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple in 538 BC. Cyrus the Great died in battle in 530 BC. He was succeeded by his son Cambyses. Cyrus the Great achieves highest rank among all world leaders throughout the human history because of the following reasons:

· High moral and ethical values.

· Created Persian Empire based on ethics.

· Expanded the Ethical Empire to include all men who wish to join it.

· In the Bible (e.g., Ezra 1:1-4), Cyrus is famous for freeing the Jewish captives in Babylonia and allowing them to return to their homeland. His name occurs twenty two times in the Bible.

· Establishment of a constitution and Judicial system based on high moral and ethical values.

· Freedoms of religion, job, and place of residency; being advocate of freedom of choice 2500 years ago is very admirable. On the contrary Constantine the Great 800 years later did not have religious toleration (persecuted the Jews) and introduced laws that made certain occupations (e.g., butchers, bakers) hereditary.

· Were it not for Cyrus, therefore, it seems at least possible that the Jewish people would have died out as a separate group in the fifth century BC

· Created Gold and Silver coins for trading.

· Ordered all Governors to treat the people as their own children, and no one could be executed for a first time crime.

· Slavery was not allowed. The Old Persian culture did not accept the concept of slavery. This is a good indication of a great ethical culture; we can admire this especially when we see some 250 years later Aristotle's ideas of slavery as natural law. This idea of Aristotle was used in the Roman Empire and after that in the British Empire as natural law.

· Despite the fact that Cyrus the Great was a genius he would consult with other leaders from different ethnic background to come up with a better solution for their problems.

· Cyrus was clearly a leader of immense military ability, and an outstanding statesman.

· Cyrus the Great had a Major influence on the thinking of Aristotle and Alexander the Great, and the Roman Empire form of government.

· He was exceptionally tolerant of local religions and local customs.

· He was moderate and respectful toward his defeated opponents, and if they were popular leaders among their people let them continue with their positions.

Cyrus the Great was the founder of the Persian Empire, the first ethical empire throughout human history. He overthrew three great empires (Medes, Lydians, and Babylonians), and united most of the ancient Middle East into a single state stretching from India to the Mediterranean Sea. Cyrus (Kurush in the original Persian) was born about 590 BC, in the province of Persis (now Fars), in southwest Iran. Cyrus was the grandson of Astyages, king of the Medes. Before Cyrus's birth, Astyages had a dream that his grandson would someday overthrow him. The king ordered that the infant be killed promptly after his birth. However, the official entrusted with the job of killing the infant had no heart for such a bloody deed, and instead handed him over to a shepherd and his wife with instructions that they put the child to death. But they, too, were unwilling to kill the boy, and instead reared him as their own. Ultimately, when the child grew up, he indeed caused the king's downfall.

Cyrus was clearly a leader of immense military ability. But that was only one facet of the man. More distinctive, perhaps, was the benign character of his rule. He was exceptionally tolerant of local religions and local customs, and he was disinclined to the extreme brutality and cruelty, which characterized so many other conquerors. The Babylonians, for instance, and even more notably the Assyrians, had massacred many thousands and had exiled whole peoples whose rebellion they feared. For example, when the Babylonians had conquered Judea in 586 BC, they had deported much of the population to Babylon. But fifty years later, after Cyrus had conquered Babylonia, he gave the Jews permission to return to their homeland. Were it not for Cyrus, therefore, it seems at least possible that the Jewish people would have died out as a separate group in the fifth century BC On the contrary, Constantine the Great emperor of Rome (c. 280-337) did not have religious toleration and can be said to mark the beginning of the official persecution of the Jews that was to persist in Europe for so many centuries.

To understand the greatness of Cyrus relative to his time (2500 years ago) we should compare him with Alexander The Great whom he came to power 250 years after Cyrus. Alexander had been brought up to believe that Greek culture represented the only true civilization, and that all of the non-Greek peoples were barbarians. Such, of course, was the prevailing view throughout the Greek world, and even Aristotle had shared it. When Alexander conquered the Persian capital Persepolis; he destroyed Persepolis (the ruin exists today). You can see the difference of these two leaders -- one conquers and allows freedom, the other conquers and destroys.

Another important point is that while Aristotle (250 years after Cyrus the Great) who was perhaps the greatest philosopher and scientist of the ancient world, he supported slavery. Aristotle originated the study of formal logic, enriched almost every branch of philosophy, and made numerous contributions to science, he supported slavery as being in accord with natural law, and he believed in the natural inferiority of women. Despite these last two extremely reactionary ideas, some of Aristotle's views were progressive e.g., "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime," "All who have meditated on the art of governing mankind are convinced that the fate of empires depends on the education of youth." the belief that it is worthwhile for human beings to conduct a systematic inquiry into every aspect of the natural world; and the conviction that we should utilize both empirical observations and logical reasoning in forming our conclusions.

Despite Aristotle's ideas of slavery as natural law, Cyrus the Great did not believe in slavery never took any slaves and hated brutality and injustice. This is another indication of an old rich Persian culture, which was based on ethics. Even today many forms of slavery exist in this globe, which is a disgrace to all humanity. For example in Time Magazine, June 21, 93 page 46 we read the following:

" A 1991 conference of Southeast Asian women's organizations estimated that 30 million women had been sold worldwide since the mid-1970s. Such figures are at best guesses and at worst only the tip of the iceberg."

Even if we compare Cyrus the Great with political leaders of our time he still achieves highest rank. One of the key attributes of Cyrus the Great was his fight against cruel rulers while not becoming a blind expansionist.

We would admire Cyrus the Great more when we see domination of Machiaavelli philosophy in our time around this globe. The Italian political philosopher Niccolo Machiavelli (1469-1527) is notorious for his blunt advice that a ruler interested in maintaining and increasing his power should make use of deceitfulness, cunning, and lies, combined with a ruthless use of force. Machiavelli principal fame rests upon his book "The Prince"(a handbook for dictators). The Prince may be considered a primer of practical advice for a head of state. The basic point of view of the book is that in order to succeed; a prince should ignore moral considerations entirely and depend upon strength and cunning. Machiavelli discussed history and politics in purely human terms, and simply ignored moral consideration. Unfortunately Machiavelli is considered to be one of the principal founders of modern political thought. In chapter 17 of The Prince, Machiavelli discusses whether it is better for a prince to be loved or feared: "The reply is that one ought to be both feared and loved, but...it is much safer to be feared than loved, if one of the two has to be wanting ...for love is held by a chain of obligation which, men being selfish, is broken whenever it serves their purposes, but fear is maintained by a dread of punishment which never fails." Often, the most denunciation came from those who practiced what Machiavelli preached- a hypocrisy of which Machiavelli might approve, in principle! Therefore we should not judge politicians by their words but by their hard and difficult choices, actions, and great sacrifices.

Because of all the above reasons and high moral and ethical values Cyrus the Great scored the highest rank among all the greatest world's leaders both in ancient and modern times. Therefore Cyrus the Great may be said to be among the greatest political leaders of all time throughout human history.



The study of Cyrus the Great and establishment of his ethical Persian empire some 2500 years ago is a good indication that in our time the concept of world order based on ethics, ethical state, peace and harmony among nations are not an impossible goal and illusion. In this century the most fundamental and essential ingredients of an evolution towards these goals are democracy, freedom of expression, freedom of choice, freedom of religion, cultural toleration, human rights, political feedback mechanism, open trade policy, and open communications among people in this globe. The ethics of life are the pursuit of awareness for ourselves and others. The ultimate goal is total awareness. Ethical Government is a means of achieving that goal by raising man to a higher state of total awareness. Ethical leaders can lead men toward Ethical Government and Society, which can lead man to total awareness. To increase man's power is always ethical. However, only men who use power to expand awareness are ethical. Men who use power to diminish awareness are unethical.

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A great look into Cyrus' early life:


Ancient History Sourcebook:
Xenophon:
When Cyrus the Great was a Boy

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AT that time Astyages sent for his daughter and her son; for he was desirous to see him, having heard that he was a handsome and excellent child. Accordingly Mandane went to her father, and took her son Cyrus with her. As soon as she arrived, and Cyrus knew Astyages to be his mother's father, he instantly, as being a boy naturally affectionate, embraced him, just as if he had been previously brought up with him, and had long loved him; and, observing him adorned with paint about his eyes and color applied to his face, and with artificial hair, things that are customary amongst the Medes (for purple coats, cloaks, collars about the neck, and bracelets on the wrists are all Median decorations; but amongst the Persians at home, even at this day, their habits are much coarser, and their diet more simple), observing the dress of his grandfather, and fixing his eyes on him, he said, "O mother, how handsome my grandfather is!" His mother then asking him which he thought the more handsome, his father or his grandfather, Cyrus answered, "Of the Persians, mother, my father is much the most handsome; but of all the Medes that I have seen, either upon the road or at the gates of the palace, my grandfather is far the most handsome."

Astyages, then, embracing Cyrus in return, put on him a fine robe, did him honor, and decorated him with collars and bracelets; and, whenever he went abroad, took him with him on a horse with a bridle of gold, just as he himself used to go about. Cyrus, being a boy fond of what was fine and honorable, was pleased with the robe, and extremely delighted at learning to ride; for, amongst the Persians, from its being difficult to breed horses,and difficult even to ride in a country so mountainous, it is a rare thing to see a horse.

Astyages, when he was supping with his daughter and Cyrus, wishing the boy to sup as agreeably as possible, that he might the less regret what he had left at home, had several dishes set before him, with sauces and meats of all kinds; when, as they relate, Cyrus said: "How much trouble, grandfather, you have at your meals, if you must stretch out your hands to all these dishes, and taste of all these kinds of meat!"

"What, then," said Astyages, "do you not think this entertainment much finer than what you have in Persia?" To this question Cyrus is said to have replied: "No, grandfather; for with us the way to be satisfied is much plainer and straighter than with you; since among us plain bread and meat conduct us to that object; you indeed pursue the same object with us, but, after rambling in many windings up and down, you at last scarcely reach the point at which we have arrived long before you."

"But, child," said Astyages, "it is not with pain that we ramble through these windings; if you taste," said he, "you will find that these things arc pleasant." "But, grandfather," said Cyrus, "I observe you yourself show an aversion to these dishes."

"From what do you guess," inquired Astyages, "that you express such an opinion?" "Because I remark," said he, "that when you touch your bread, you do not wipe your hand upon anything, but when you touch any one of these dishes, you immediately wipe your hand upon your napkin, as if you were quite uneasy that it had touched them." On receiving this answer Astyages said: "If you think so, then, at least eat heartily of plain meat, that you may return home a stout youth;" and as he said this, he directed various kinds of flesh, both of tame and wild animals, to be presented to him.

Cyrus, when he saw this variety of meats, is reported to have said: "And do you give me all these meats, grandfather, to do with them what I please?" "Yes, indeed," said Astyages; "I make you a present of them."

Then Cyrus, taking of the several meats, is said to have distributed them to the servants about his grandfather, saying to each, "I give this to you, because you take pleasure in teaching me to ride; this to you, because you gave me a javelin, for I have it still; this to you, because you serve my grandfather well; this to you, because you honor my mother;" and to have proceeded thus, >till he had distributed all the meat that he had received.

Astyages then said, "And do you give nothing to this Sakan, my cup-bearer, whom I value above all?" This Sakan was a handsome person, and had the honor to introduce to Astyages any that wanted to see him, and to exclude such as he did not think it seasonable to admit. Cyrus on this is said to have answered rather flippantly, as a boy not yet grown bashful: "For what reason is it, grandfather, that you value this Sakan so much?"

Astyages replied jestingly. "Do you not see," said he, "how properly and gracefully he pours out my wine?" For these cup-bearers to kings perform their business very cleverly; they pour in the wine without spilling, and give the cup, holding it on three fingers, and presenting it in such a manner as to put it most conveniently into the hand of the person who is to drink. "Bid the Sakan give me the cup, grandfather," said Cyrus, "that I also, by gracefully pouring in wine for you to drink, may gain your favor if I can."

Astyages bade the Sakan give him the cup; and Cyrus, taking it, rinsed the cup so well, as he had observed the Sakan to do, settled his countenance so gravely, and brought and presented the cup to his grandfather so prettily as to afford much laughter to his mother and Astyages. Cyrus then, laughing out, leaped up to his grandfather, and, kissing him, cried out, "O Sakan, you are undone; I will turn you out of your office; for I will pour out wine better than you in other respects, and I will not drink the wine myself." For these cup-bearers to kings, when they give the cup, dip a little out with a smaller cup, which they pour into their left hand and swallow; so that, in case they mix poison in the cup, it may be of no profit to them.

Upon this, Astyages said, joking: "And why, Cyrus, when you imitated the Sakan in I everything else, did not you swallow some of the wine?" "Because, to say the truth," said he, "I was afraid there might have been poison mixed in the cup; for, when you entertained your friends upon your birthday, I plainly perceived that he had poured in poison for you all." "And how, child," said he, "did you know this?" "Because," said he, "I saw you all disordered both in mind and body; for, in the first place, what you do not allow us boys to do, that you did yourselves; for you all cried out together, and yet could not understand each other; next you fell to singing very ridiculously; and, without attending to the singer, you swore that he sang admirably; then, though each told stories of his own strength, when you rose up and fell to dancing, you were not only unable to dance properly, but were unable even to stand upright; at length, you all entirely forgot yourselves, you, that you were the king, and they, that you were their ruler; and then, for the first time, I discovered that it was equal liberty of speech that you were practicing; for you never ceased to speak."

Astyages then said, "Is your father, child, never intoxicated when he drinks?" "No, indeed," said he.

"What does he, then?" "Why, he quenches his thirst, and suffers no further harm; for I believe, grandfather," says he, "it is not a Sakan that pours out wine for him." His mother then said: "But why, child, do you thus make war upon the Sakan?" Cyrus is said to have replied: "Why, indeed, because I hate him; for, very often, when I am desirous to run to my grandfather, this disagreeable fellow hinders me. But pray, grandfather," said he, "allow me to have the government of him for three days." "How would you govern him?" said Astyages. Cyrus replied: "Why, standing as he does, just at the entrance, when he had a mind to go in to dinner, I would tell him that it is not yet possible for him to get his dinner, because "he was busy with certain people;' then, when he came to supper, I would tell him that "he was bathing;" and, if he was very eager to eat, I would tell him that "he was with the women;" and so on, >till I had tormented him as he torments me when he keeps me from you."

Such amusement did he afford them at meals; at other times of the day, if he perceived his grandfather or his mother's brother in want of anything, it was difficult for any one to be beforehand with him in doing it; for Cyrus was extremely delighted to gratify them in anything that lay in his power. But when Mandane was preparing to return home to her husband, Astyages requested her to leave Cyrus with him. She made answer, that she was willing to gratify her father in everything; but that she should think it unkind to leave the child against his will.

Upon this, Astyages said to Cyrus: "Child, if you will stay with me, in the first place, the Sakan shall not have the command of your access to me; but, whenever you wish to come in, it shall be in your own power to do so; and the oftener you come," said he, "the more I shall think myself obliged to you. You shall also have the use of all my horses, and of as many more as you please; and, when you go away, you shall take as many of them as you please with you. At meals, too, you shall take whatever way you please to what appears to you to be sufficient. As for the animals that are now in the park, I give them to you; and will collect others of all kinds, which you shall hunt when you have learned to ride, and shall strike them down with your bow and javelin, as grown men do. Boys I will find you for playfellows; and whatever else you may desire, if you tell me of it, you shall not fail to have it."

When Astyages had said this, Cyrus' mother asked him whether he would stay or go. He did not at all hesitate, but at once said that he would stay. And being asked by his mother for what reason, it is said that he answered: "Because, mother, at home I am, and am accounted, superior to my equals in age both in throwing the javelin and in shooting with the bow; but here, I well know that, in horsemanship, I am inferior to the boys of my age; and be assured, mother, this grieves me very much. But if you leave me here, and I learn to be a horseman, I conceive that when I am in Persia, I shall easily master them there, who are so good at all exercises on foot; and when I come amongst the Medes, I shall endeavor by becoming the best of good horsemen for my grandfather's sake, to be a support to him."

His mother is reported to have said, "But how, child, will you be instructed here in the knowledge of justice, when your masters are there?" "Oh, mother," said Cyrus, "I understand that accurately already." "How do you know that?" said Mandane. "Because my teacher," said he, "appointed me to give judgment to others, as being very exact in the knowledge of justice myself. But yet," added he, "for not having decided rightly, in one case, I received some stripes. The case was this: A bigger boy, who had a little coat, taking the coat off a little boy, that had a larger one, put on him his own coat, and put on himself the little boy's coat. I, therefore, giving judgment between them, decided that it was best that each should keep the coat that best fitted him. Upon this, the master beat me, telling me that, when I should be constituted judge of what fitted best, I might determine in this manner; but that when I was to judge whose the coat was, I must consider what just possession is; whether he that took a thing from another by force should have it, or he who made it or purchased it should possess it; and then he told me that what was according to law was just, and that what was contrary to law was an act of violence; and impressed upon me accordingly, that a judge ought to give his opinion in conformity with the law. So, mother," said he, "I understand what is just in all cases very exactly; or, if I am at all deficient, my grandfather here will teach it me."

"But, child," said she, "the same things are not accounted just with your grandfather here, and yonder in Persia; for among the Medes, your grandfather has made himself master of all; but amongst the Persians, it is accounted just that each should have equal rights with his neighbors. Your father is the first to execute what is appointed by the whole state, and submits to what is appointed; his own inclination is not his standard of action, but,the law. Take care then, that you are not beaten to death at home, if you come thither having learned from your grandfather not what belongs to a king, but what belongs to a tyrant; an ingredient in which is, to think that you yourself ought to have more than others."

"Oh, mother," said Cyrus, "your father is much better able to teach one to have less than to have more. Do you not see," said he, "that he has taught all the Medes to have less than himself? Be well assured, therefore, that your father will not dismiss me, nor any one, from about him, instructed to encroach upon others."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Source:

From: Eva March Tappan, ed., The World's Story: A History of the World in Story, Song and Art, (Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1914), Vol. II: India, Persia, Mesopotamia, and Palestine, pp. 294-302

Scanned by: J. S. Arkenberg, Dept. of History, Cal. State Fullerton. Prof. Arkenberg has modernized the text.
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redemption



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Posts: 1158
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2004 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: thank you for your replies Reply with quote

chava wrote:
thank you all for your responses. i always enjoy discovering the intentions of those who oppose us. such knowledge always validates my suspicions and confirms my righteous desires for serhildan (uprising) aiming for the goal of independence. today, besides the unrest in iranian-occupied kurdistan, we are fortunate to witness the beginning of serhildan in syrian-occupied kurdistan.

i will confess something. . . i have to admire the attitude of the ba'athists in syria. at least they are honest about their hatred of us, denying us any citizenship and thus disenfranchising us totally. this gives us nothing to lose, no false promises of unity, no calling us "mountain turks" or perhaps, more fitting for this forum, "mountain iranians." syrian hatred is at least pure and honest. such hatred makes us very, very hungry.

forgive me, i'm digressing. . . on to business.

i didn't realize there were such things as iranian kemalists, with nighmares of kurdish "bogeymen" that no longer exist. PKK?!! where have you all been?!! yo, wake up, rip! there is no pkk anymore except that which is enshrined in our hearts, the memory of our martyrs burning brightly as a strong light that strenghtens us and guides us on our path. if this causes degeneracy then believe me, dear friends, i am not isolated in my degeneracy. there are far more of us than our twenty million brothers and sisters in the north. . . we are everywhere and are made up of those kurds from ALL of occupied kurdistan and with our non-kurdish friends around the world.

if you were familiar with the statements of kadek and now kgk, you would know these congresses have stated a willingness to work with those states in which kurdistanis live to achieve full and equal civil rights for the kurdistanis:

"KONGRA-GEL does not aim at dismantling the states in which Kurds live. Its stance towards these states will depend on their receptiveness to the Kurdish issue. The People's Congress does not aim at division or separation; to the contrary it aims at a contemporary democratic union respecting the unity of country and state. It believes that this approach responds to the vital needs both of the Kurds and of the neighbouring nation states." (from the founding document of the kongreya gele kurdistan, 15 november 2003, http://www.kurdishinfo.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=345 ) of course i'm in agreement with the leadership.

oh, you have a problem with the legitimacy of the kgk? this statement was released from south kurdistan during the congress back in november. wasn't it nice of the americans to allow our representatives passage to the congress from all parts of the world? wasn't it nice of them to greet us at the borders of iraq, to see that all our travel documents were in order and to wish us a happy visit to south kurdistan, the land they too love?

in your responses you proclaim "unity, unity, unity!" and yet you never once acknowldege us by using the words "kurd" or "kurdistani." no, but you mention kurdistan with contempt, ". . . not some kurdistan joke!" you mention all YOUR dead, all YOUR suffering under YOUR mullahs. . . be honest, who allowed khomeini back into iran with all his false promises and his absurd talk of religion. how many are you? overthrow your mullahs yourselves, but don't speak to us about mullahs. . . for us they are the same as monarchs.

monarchs. . . you mention the name of the murderer of qazi mohammed and of so many of qazi mohammed's family and supporters. let me ask you, is this your god that you fall down and worship him and his descendants? if so, you proclaim clearly your enmity with all of us, the kurdistanis, no matter where we are, and at the same time you proclaim your enmity with secular democracy. secular democracy cannot, by its egalitarian nature, coexist in a shared space with monarchy and idol-worship and therefore your inconsistency is clear.

your scientific views of the relationship between kurdistanis and iranians are reminiscent of the darwinism of the european fascists of the twentieth century (and i might add the turkish fascists, the kemalists, the anachronism of the twenty-first century), in which these fascists attempted to classify "race" according to linguistic terms like "indo-aryan" versus "semitic" (i will leave it to you to guess exactly which european fascists it is that i refer to here).

what brilliant pseudoscience that dazzles the ignorant mind! your use of a linguistic argument to illustrate the intimate--and dare i say it, "brotherly"--relationship to the people of kurdistan can be used to "prove" that i enjoy some kind of intimate, "brotherly" relationship with the british royal family because i speak english. you all may be the experts on the pedigree of the pahlavi dynasty, but you all need to rethink your ideas about science. recent genetic studies prove that the kurdistanis are most closely related to jews and armenians, the original inhabitants of the northern middle east ( http://www.kurdnet.net/www.kdp.info/reports/reports_detail.asp?strLanguage=English&intReportNr=1625 ).

in light of the genetic evidence, since we are the original inhabitants of the land going back millenia, it is impossible that any part of kurdistan belongs to any other nation. we were there first. you newcomers, iranians (persians, whatever), turks and arabs, have occupied us. YOU have been the cause of our blood watering the ground of kurdistan, sanctifying it and more tightly binding us to it. you have inflamed our love for our land, a love ". . . as fierce as death, it's jealousy as bitter as the grave. even its sparks are a raging fire, a devouring flame. great seas cannot extinguish love, no river can sweep it away. . ."

sure, sure, it's the fault of the europeans. . . in 1918 "a bunch of Rich Old White Europeans representing all the great conquerer nations of Europe" got together, indeed, and they created a bunch of nation states with complete disregard for the ethnicities forced together on the ground. thus, czechoslovakia. thus, yugoslavia. thus, iraq., thus, turkey. thus, iran. thus, syria. oh, but look. . . czechoslovakia no longer exists, yugoslavia no longer exists, and the days of iraq are numbered, berxwedan gives rise to serhildan in iran and syria in the last week. . . all that the european conquerer did to arrange ethnicities and geography to fit conveniently into their colonial plans are falling. all of them! the status quo that we have suffered for so long is crumbling.

don't think that your patronizing attitude to us, your imitation of the european colonialist's self-serving solicitude for the native--for OUR OWN GOOD, naturally--will fool us. we do not want to be part of any patronizing society that marginalizes us, impoverishes us, imprisons us, slaughters us for the sake of our beautiful, resource-rich land. you would be nothing without kurdistan, just as the slaveholders of the american south were nothing without their slaves.

without sincere concern for our people that guarantees us all our dignity and rights as human beings, and with our controlling of and just recompense for the use of our natural resources, YOU will never rest because you do not care about OUR pain. . . i'll leave it to you to finish my version of your poem.

to quote jim morrison:

"This is the end, Beautiful friend
This is the end, My only friend, the end
Of our elaborate plans, the end
Of everything that stands, the end
No safety or surprise, the end
I'll never look into your eyes...again

SERHILDAN!
HER BIJI KURDISTAN!

p.s. oh, by the way. . . certain of you need to correct the gender of your personal pronouns when referring to me as the antecedent. have a nice day Smile


Dude, what in god's name are you talking about? Seriously - what's wrong with you... Kurds are oppressed by the Mullahs - When Iran is free/Only good things will come to the Kurdish people as well.. What is going through your head that now you want to create some kind of divisian saying Kurds should breakoff from Iran.. what kind of nonsense are you talking about..
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 14, 2004 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me add something: i am really worried about your discourse,because it seems that once that iran is free someone will try to demand secession and separation from Iran.. and this is dangerous, as we all know..

If kurds accept to negotiate peacefully the issue with a future Democratic government , the issue will be solved in a peaceful way..
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blank



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Shah of Iran and the fake dyansty Reply with quote

Diyako the Median wrote:

Be wise and respect our choice, you can't call a dutch a european. you can fool us by calling us itanian. We ARE KURDS FROM HOLY KURDISTAN


Since when Kurdistan became HOLY!!?? you might want to avoid using that word since it brings back a connection to Holy rag-heads........ Shocked
And since when Dutch people are not Europeans....or do you think they are Americans..... Shocked
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