[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great

[Azadeh_55]

I provided the link to every single verse. You can check it out for yourself. It is from Pickthal, Shakir, and Yusufali. These are three of the most famous English translations of the Koran. Why do they say Allah when speaking in English? I don't know. But Arabs really seem to like sqeezing their own words into other people's languages. I suspect it has something to do with that. But my two versions of persian translation say the same thing. If you don't believe these sources, then please learn Arabic and read the verses in their original language and context. But don't believe what some website tells you. There are lots of charlatans out there that are looking for attention and fame. How many hits do they get per month? How many people believe their lies? I am sure that some of people are even willing to give them money to expand their website and maybe even publish books and articles. Maybe you were one of those people. One could get rich running a website like submission.org. My friend, this is just a modern trick to sell you the same old lies. That's how the mullahs got rich (before they could dream of taking over our country and stealing our oil money).

There are no miracles in the Koran. There are some nice stories taken from the Torah along with some scary ones. There are orders for waging war and killing the "unbelievers", eye-for-an-eye punishments, floggings, decapitations, inciting hatred against "kafaroon" and "munafeqeen". There are also observations of simple people from simple times about the lengths of day and night and the sun and the moon. Along with some spectacular horror stories of mountains moving like smoke on "judgement day". Let me tell you something my friend. You must have heard about the "miracle of 19". Have you ever thought about how come they don't tell us about all those other times that the sum does not add up to 19? You try it. Please do. What kind of miracle is that? They only count the ones that give the number 19. These aren't miracles! Or how about the miracle that the Koran itself mentions: "if it's not the word of Allah then bring a verse like any of the verses in the Koran". How stupid is that? I am going to challenge you to bring me a "ghazal" just like the ones that Hafez composed. Sounds rather stupid, doesn't it? That's because it is. Whatever you write won't be just like a ghazal from Hafez. Why? Because those have already been written by Hafez himself! This does not mean that Hafez Shirazi was a messenger from God and his "divan" is a micracle that was revealed to him by "Jebrail". I can't believe people still fall for such lame tricks!

My friend if you are still not convinced, then please learn Arabic and read the Koran in Arabic. It doesn't take that long. Maybe a few months.

[9karevata]

[Guest]

also i would like to say that every part of the world is mathematically composed with the number 19 and not just the final testament.....it was found that much of the torah had this 19 mathematical structure... to answer ur claim for parts that arent mathematically stuctured with the number 19 ........there are no such parts in the final testament.......it is coded down to the letter...

[Azadeh_55]

[9karevatan]

[9karevatan]

[9karevatan]

if u read farsi then go to www.efarsi.org ....unfortunately this site is closed in iran and the books are burned

[Hoi Persai]

Mr 9 is a 19er/Submitter. Rashid Khalifa was their founder and martyr. I was a 19er for 2 months (also the time that I was Muslim). I am atheist/agnostic/humanist again and live in safety in my country. Go to their website and read about women and hajj: Submission

[9karevatan]

[Guest]

[Guest]

[9karevatan]

y did u only look at two ways of number 19.......there are thousands if not more 19s involved.....heres one just for u..........

The Quran

19th and Final Scripture


Researched by : A. Muhammad

We are told in the Quran that the prophets of God are sent with the Scripture:

"The people used to be one community when God sent the prophets as bearers of good news, as well as warners. He sent down with them the Scripture, bearing the truth, to judge among the people in their disputes" 2:213 (also confirmed in 3:81)

The term 'Scripture' is consistantly associated with 'prophets' in the Quran.

If we count the number of prophets named in the Quran we find a total of twenty prophets mentioned by their names. Each one of these 20 is specifically called a prophet in the Quran.

If we read verses 83-86 of Sura 6 we read 18 names, starting with Abraham and ending with Lot. Verse 89 confirms that all these 18 were prophets of God:

"These are the ones to whom we have given the Scripture wisdom and prophethood"

These prophets are:

1- Abraham (also named as a prophet in 19:41 and 33:7)

2- Isaac (also in 19:49 and 37:112)

3- Jacob (also in 19:49)

4- Noah (also in 33:7)

5- David (also in 17:55)

6- Solomon

7- Job

8- Joseph

9- Moses (lso in 19:51 and 33:7)

10- Aaron (also in 19:53)

11- Zachariah

12- John (also in 3:39)

13- Jesus (also in 19:30 and 33:7)

14- Elias

15- Ismail (19:54)

16- Elisha

17- Jonah

18- Lot

If we add the names of the two prophets:

19- Idris (named a prophet in 19:56)

20- Muhammad (who is confirmed to be the last of the prophets (33:40)

We find that the total number of those who are named as prophets in the Quran is 20

However we are told that that the two prophets Moses and Aaron received the same Scripture. The Statute book was given to both Moses and Aaron (37:117 and 21:48), therefore the total number of Scripture given to the 20 prophets is 19. This means that the Quran, besides being the last Scripture, is also the 19th Scripture delivered through the 20 prophets mentioned in the Quran.

We note that there are others spoken of in the Quran, but not as prophets, nor as deliverers of Scripture, they are:

Adam (described as one of the chosen 3:33 …….. not associated with the word messenger or prophet)

Hud, Saleh, and Shu 'aib (named as messengers in 26:125/ 143/ 178 respectively)

Zal-Kifl (described as steadfast, patient and righteous 21:85 and 38:48)

Luqman (described as one endowed with wisdom 31:12)

Nowhere in the Quran is any of these messengers associated with the term 'Scripture'. Non of them delivered a Scripture. Thus according to the definition of 2:213 they are not prophets. Three of the six are called messengers (Hud, Saleh, and Shu'aib) while the other three (Adam, Zal-Kifl and Luqman) are only spoken of as receiving God's blessings.

We note that the Quran informs us that God has sent other messengers in the past that we are not told about in the Quran:

"We have sent messengers before you, some of them we mentioned to you, and some We did not mention to you." 40:78 (also 4:164)

However, it is indeed of interest to note that the only two verses that assert that fact (40:78 and 4:164), both speak of messengers and not of prophets.

This confirms that God Almighty has sent to mankind 19 Scripture.

The Quran is the 19th

and Final Scripture.

All Praise to Almighty God

[Azadeh_55]

What a stupid miracle.

I give you an example of somebody doing the exact same with the number 7 and the bible:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/number19.html

The statement by Dr. Khalifa that there is no other book extant with any similar numerical system, is untrue. The Bible is one such book. Let us select only one number and one verse to illustrate what we mean.
We shall investigate the presence of the number seven - a number used very often with the symbolic meaning of divine completeness - in the first verse of the Bible.


"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
The verse consists of 7 Hebrew words and 28 letters (7 x 4). There are three nouns: `God, heavens, earth.' Their total numeric value (Hebrew has no numbers but these are represented by letters: the sum of the number letters being the numeric value) is 777 (7 x 111). The verb 'created' has the value 203 (7 x 29). The object is contained in the first three words - with 14 letters (7 x 2) The other four words contain the subject - also with 14 letters (7 x 2). The Hebrew words for the two objects - "the heavens and the earth" - each have seven letters.

The fourth and fifth words have 7 letters. The value of the first, middle and last letters in the verb 'created' is 133 (7 x 19) the numeric value of the first and last letters of all the words is 1393 (7 x 199) and the value of the first and last letters of the verse is 497 (7 x 71). The Hebrew particle 'eth' with the article 'the', used twice, has the value 407 (7 x 5 and the last letters of the first and last words equal 490 (7 x 70).

In all, there are over 30 different numberic features related to 7 in this verse. The odds against the above features occurring by chance are 33 Trillions:1.

But the number seven is also interwoven throughout the Bible. Creation took 7 days; Naaman had to wash 7 times in the Jordan to be cleansed from leprosy; the Israelites had to march around Jericho 7 days and 7 times on the 7th day; they had to set aside one day in 7 for rest and worship. There was a 7-armed lampstand in the temple, etc. In the last book, Revelation, we find mentioned 7 spirits, 7 lampstands, 7 churches, 7 stars, 7 seals, 7 trumpets, 7 vials, 7 thunders, 7 plagues, 7 mountains and 7 kings. The tribulation period is to be 7 years being the last "week of years" of Daniel's 70 weeks (Dan 9:24 ff).

Beyond this we know that the incubation period of the human embryo is 280 days (7 x 40). In Genesis we are told that man was formed from the dust of the ground. The "dust of the ground" contains 14 (7 x 2) elements, and so does the human body. Every cell in the human body is renewed every 7 years and every 7th day the pulse beats slower. In certain diseases the critical days are the 7th, 14th, 21st, etc. and the female cycle is 28 (7 x 4) days. Light is made up of 7 colours, the moon completes its orbit around the earth in 28 days (7 x 4) and the earth is 49 (7 x 7) times larger than the moon. (This information is taken from "The Seal of God" by F.C. Payne. The actual numerics were compiled by Ivan Panin).

This information was available for many years, long before the advent of computers. It never persuaded a single Muslim, to our knowledge, to accept the challenge of receiving the Bible as the Word of God - although the evidence is more convincing than the findings of Dr. Khalifa. Why?

Despite the superiority of this presentation over the one figured out by Dr. Khalifa, we can and would not suggest that anyone accept numerics alone as a basis for faith in the Bible. It is at best a crutch.


Here is the rest of the article:


Evaluation

Dr. Khalifa, unlike Mr. Deedat, exposed himself to criticism by providing a table in order to illustrate the system on which his findings are based. His main theme is to show that exactly half (we are not quite sure what "exactly half" in this instance is supposed to prove) of the letters of the Arabic alphabet, i.e. fourteen letters, are used - some of them repeatedly - as "Mystic initials" at the beginning of 29 Suras. According to many old commentators, these initials (called "al-Mukkataat") are the initials of the scribes of the Suras concerned: ALM, ALMS, ALR, ALMR, KHYAS, TH, TSM, TS, YS, S, HM, HMASQ, Q, N. ALM, for example, stands for Amar Li Muh.

Dr. Khalifa, with the aid of his computer, discovered, however, that in certain Suras the sum of all the letters that are represented in the initials above the Sura are divisible by the mysterious 19. To give an example: Three initials (ALR) stand at the head of Sura 15. In the text of this Sura, the sum of the L's is 323 and this figure represents 17 x 19. In the case of Sura 68 which ha-s the initial N above it, the sum of all the N's in the Sura is 133, i.e. 7 x 19. Then again if one were to add up all the letters of all Suras that have the initial A at the top, we would again- have a number divisible by 19. Similarly the totals of all the letters of the initials above each individual Sura when added up are divisible by 19. In Sura 36, for instance, where the initials are Y and S, there. are 48 S and 237 Y. Though neither of these sums can be divided by 19, the combined total is 15 x 19. In Dr. Khalifa's table we have, therefore, 14 vertical columns and their totals, representing the sums of each individual letter; and 29 horizontal columns where the totals are given of all letters as represented in the initials of each individual Sura.

Of the 121 figures given in toto in this table, including the 43 totals, 22 are divisible by 19, which is roughly one in six-and-a-half. Of the 78 figures that are given in the table (excluding the totals), six are divisible by 19. This is one out of every 13, which is hardly above average odds. We have to reject this as proof of divine action having been involved. Coming to the vertical totals (i.e the sums of all letters represented by the initials of each individual Sura) we find a more spectacular result:

Eight of the twenty-nine totals are divisible by 19 which is about one in three-and-a-half. Much more convincing still are the totals of each in dividual letter represented in the 29 Suras: 8 of the 14 sums are divisible by 19. Do these figures constitute evidence of divine intervention? Bearing in mind the arguments contained in points 1 to 7 above, we would say impressive, yes; divine, no.

How impressive in fact are these findings? We realize firstly that the method is based on manipulation. If we used a critical method of programming, our results would be average because we would reduce the combinations in our system that show evidence of 19. We note that Dr. Khalifa (and Mr. Deedat p. 67-6 has tried his best to improve his results by stating for example that in all Suras with the initials ALM at the top, the respective letters in the three Suras combined add up to a figure that is divisible by 19. In his case the sum of all A's and L's and M's in Suras 2,3,7,13,29-32 add up to 26676, which is equal to 19 x 1404. In order to make this total divisible by 19, he had to leave the initials out in the case of Sura 7. The reason is that this Sura has the initials ALMS, which disqualifies it from being included, because it is not a Sura with the initials ALM. So in order to produce a number divisible by 19, he included Sura 7 but excluded the 98 S's. The same applies to the use of Sura 13 (ALMR) in this context. The same type of manipulation was used in the set of Suras 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 which begin with the initials ALR (except 13 which has the initials ALMR). Adding up all the ALR's of these six Suras, Dr. Khalifa arrives at the sum of 9709 (= 19 x 511) but my computer shows that the sum is 10813 which is not divisible by 19. Dr. Khalifa arrived at this figure by adding all the letters indicated by the initials ALR of these Suras excepting Sura 13 (which begins with ALMR) and adds from this Sura only the figure 137, i.e. the number of times the initial R occurs, conveniently leaving out the A's and L's for otherwise the sum (10813) would not be divisible by 19, as we have shown. He does not expect his readers to check on his data, and perhaps we are the first to do so. It is so much easier simply to be impressed by the "divine" touch and to be strengthened in faith by a manipulation which is needed as a crutch to support a religion without other evidence. Other manipulations can be seen in Sura 42. Here the sum of all the letters as represented in the initials HMASQ is 570 or 19 x 30, but it is divided into 361 + 209 to fit the first sum into the total of all HM's. In order to increase his successes, Dr Khalifa gives the final figure for Sura 68 as 152, which is already reflected in the vertical column of the letter N and is therefore a duplication.

These are findings that strike the eye of a superficial reader who is totally unacquainted with statistics or mathematics. We would still have to check whether the figures given for the A's, L's, M's, etc. in the various chapters do in fact correspond with the number of times they occur in the Quran. It is beyond the scope of this investigation to undertake such checking. However, as the given figures that can be easily checked, were found to be unreliable, we may well assume that those that we cannot check without great effort are hardly likely to be any more trustworthy.

A rather striking statement in addition to the table we have just investigated is that the


"key to Mohammed's perpetual eternal miracle is found in the very first verse of the Quran which says: `In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful' or a it reads in the Arabic: Bismillah al- Rahman al-Rahim.'"
When we count the Arabic letters that make up this verse we find they total 19. Dr. Khalifa discovered that every word in this verse is mentioned a number of times in the Quran and these numbers are multiples of nineteen.

The first word "name" is allegedly found exactly 19 times in the entire Quran. The second word "Allah" in mentioned in the Quran 2698 times, (19 x 142); the third word of the verse, "al-Rahman", is found in the Quran 57 times, (3 x 19); and finally, the fourth word in the first Quranic verse, "al-Rahim", is mentioned 114 times (6 x 19) in the entire Quran. (Dr. Rashad Khalifa).

We are amazed at this statement, because every child in the Madressa school is aware that of the 114 Suras of the Quran 113 begin with this verse "In the name of God, the compassionate, the merciful." We do not understand how Dr. Khalifa can state that the word name is found in the whole Quran exactly 19 times or "a-l-Rahman" 52 times or "al-Rahim" 114 times. We suspect that the so-caIled "Bismillahs", i.e. the opening verses of almost all Suras have been expediently left out by Dr. Khalifa. Had he included them, his totals would no longer have been divisible by 19. We must conclude that Dr. Khalifa has purposely tried to mislead his readers when he states that the whole Quran is meant. He has left out the Bismillahs to suit his own purpose of providing divinity through deception.

We should like to conclude this chapter by repeating in our own words a statement in this connection made by John Gilchrist:

Surely if 19 were a divinely chosen seal on the Quran, Sura 19:19 would give the ultimate message of the Quran. What does it say there? It speaks about the "holy son", Jesus. Surely this is significant when we compare it with verse 19 of Sura 47 where it states that Mohammed should "ask forgiveness for his fault."

In his booklet Mr. Deedat claimed that the first revelation the first five verses of Sura 96 were followed by verses 17-30 of Sura 74 which ends "over it are 19." He concludes that 5 verses plus 14 verses add up to 19 verses; hence the verse over it are 19. We state that it is by no means historically established that the sequence of the revelations was as Mr. Deedat claims. According to J M Rodwell, a Quranic translator and chronologist, Sura 74 was second in sequence after Sura 96 although no verses are indicated. Jalalu'd-din, a Muslim chronologer, names Sura 74 as being the fourth one revealed. Sir W. Muir estimates it to be the 21st.

Apart from that, we are aware that the division of verses in the Quran is based on five different systems:


the Kufah system, following the tradition of Ali;
the Basra system, following Mohammed's companion Asim ibn Hajjaj;
the Shami system of Syria used by Mohammed's companion Abdu'lla-h ibn Umar
the Makkah system and
the Madinah system.
This makes it obvious that Mohammed did not undertake the division into verses. As far as the ordering of the Suras is concerned this was done by Khalif Uthman and thus the whole of Mr. Deedat's argument falls flat. (Information from "Dictionary of Islam", pages 489-492)

In order to check Dr. Khalifa's data we wrote to ask him to supply us with the mathematical methods of research he used so as to enable us to repeat his experiments.

We also asked for the mathematical formula which he had used to calculate the probability of the pattern occurring by chance; a copy of the magnetic tape of the whole Quran that he used as information for the computer; as well as the computer programme that was used to analyse the text to determine the numerical pattern he had discovered. The reply to this letter was most surprising. Dr. Khalifa wrote:

"To repeat the work, all you need to is count the letters in a Quran written according to the original Uthmani method. Most of the facts are simple and need no mathematics".

We wonder what the extensive use of a computer as mentioned in his book, was all about. Perhaps you, dear reader, have arrived at your own conclusion by now. (See chart pages 140 & 141)




As you can see, you can manipulate any book to find any number that you want in it. You said that number 19 was the code for the entire universe, not just the Koran. This author has shown that the bible (and the universe) are "coded" based on the number 7.

[Saman]

Once again I urge you to visit www.faithfreedom.org. It's made by IRANIANS and showes how flawed Islam is and what a maniac and pedophile Mohammad was.

Islam is bogus. Only a mean for Arab imperialism.
_________________
Zoroaster's philosophy: Good thoughts, good words, good deeds.
Pâyandeh bâd xâke Irân e mâ!

[sudi]

So let me see if I understand, based on this 19 theory, Quran/Islam's great miracle is finding a common denominator?