[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great

[9karevatan]

where did blank go???
_________________
iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!!

[blank]

9karevatan......didn't know that you will miss me so much.........
Anybody that is looking for proof should get shipped to Saudia Arabia and Mecca where the f--king mohamad was living and thanks to his f--king religion, Islamic people are the most ignorant, & misguided people on this earth......& while you are there you can watch some decapatating and amputating..........according to islamic fu.king religion.........

[9karevatan]

[9karevatan]

In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

PASSION OF CHRIST - THE MOVIE

Mel Gibson's movie, "Passion of Christ" is a success in the box office success by all measurements. The movie
depicts the last few hours of Jesus and details the gore of the torture and crucifixion. We note three things in the
movie which has very limited basis in the Bible and none in the Quran.

1. Jesus was tortured and crucified.

2. The emphasis on the last few hours underlines and promotes the belief that Jesus "sacrificed for us" or "for our
sins."

3. Little of no emphasis on the real message of Jesus that, "you shall not worship except God", the first
commandment in the Old, New and Final Testament (Quran).

The Quran, informs us that Jesus was a human messenger of God whose sole mission was to deliver
God's message; he never possessed any power, and is now dead (4:171, 5:75, 117). Those who
consider Jesus to be God, or Son of God, or part of a trinity are "pagans" (5:17, 72, 73). Outstanding
Christian scholars have reached these same conclusions (THE MYTH OF GOD INCARNATE, John
Hick, ed., The Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1977 & THE MYTH MAKER, Hyam
Maccoby,Harper & Row 1986). Christianity is the product of Nicene (AD 325).
The Bible's Jesus

Jesus proclaimed aloud: ``Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent
me; ..... For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to
say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is
spoken just as he instructed me.'' [ John 12:44-50 ]

"I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgment is honest because I am not
seeking my own will but the will of him who sent me." [ John 5:30 ]

Jesus said: ``My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent me.'' [ John 7:16 ]

"Men of Israel, listen to me! Jesus the Nazorean was a man whom God sent to you with miracles,
wonders, and signs as his credentials. These God worked through him in your midst, as you well
know."
[ Acts 2:22 ]

``...The man who hears my word and has faith in him who sent me possesses eternal life.''
[ John 5:24 ]

"Whoever welcomes me welcomes, not me, but him who sent me."
[ Matthew 10:40, Mark 9:37, Luke 9:48, & John 13:20 ]

``...I have not come of myself. I was sent by One who has the right to send, and him you do not know. I
know him because it is from him I come; he sent me.'' [ John 7:28-29 ]

Jesus looked up to heaven and said, ``...Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and him
whom you have sent, Jesus Christ.'' [ John 17:1-3 ]

All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
[ Romans 8:14 ]

Jesus looked upward and said, ``Father, I thank you for having heard me. I know that you always hear
me but I have said this for the sake of the crowd, that they may believe that you sent me.''
[ John 11:41-42 ]

As he was setting out on a journey a man came running up, knelt down before him and asked, ``Good
Teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life?'' Jesus answered, ``Why do you call me good?
No one is good but God alone.'' [ Mark 10:17-18 ]

``None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of
my Father in heaven."
[ Matthew 7:21 ]

``...Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and
your God.' '' [ John 20:17 ]

``God is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
[ Quran 3:51, 19:36, & 43:64 ]

Trinity, the doctrine of God taught by Christians that asserts that God is one in essence but three in
``person,'' Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such,
appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the
Old Testament: ``Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one'' (Deut. 6:4).
[ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1975 ]
Jesus' Death

This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The Quran's miraculous
mathematical code has now provided the final answer to this topic:

Jesus' soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest and crucifixion of his body. Thus,
his persecutors arrested, tortured, and crucified an empty body - Jesus was already gone to the
world of souls (3:55, 4:157).

They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer. Thus, God said,
``O Jesus, I am putting you to death, and raising you to Me; I will save you from the disbelievers.''
[ Quran 3:54-55 ]

They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God! In fact, they
never killed him; they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did.
[ Quran 4:157 ]

Mercifully, God has given our generation a living example of a person whose soul departed this
world, but his body continued to live for 19 months. On November 25, 1984, doctors at the Humana
Hospital of Louisville, Kentucky removed the diseased heart of Mr. William Schroeder and replaced
it with a plastic and metal pump (THE NEW YORK TIMES, Monday, November 26, 1984).

On the 19th day after this historic operation - Thursday, December 13, 1984 - Mr. Schroeder, the
soul, the real person, departed this world. Mr. Schroeder died. But his body continued to function
with the artificial heart implanted in his body. The world was told that he "probably suffered a stroke"
(THE NEW YORK TIMES, December 14, 1984).

Significantly, only one day before Mr. Schroeder's departure, he talked with President Ronald
Reagan on national TV, and demanded that the Social Security Administration send his overdue
check. He was
perfectly alert. From the moment "he suffered a stroke," he did not recognize the day or time, nor his
family members. In fact, Mr.Schroeder was no longer in this world.
The Gospels state clearly that the arrested body of Jesus was oblivious to the events surrounding it:
The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him
again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you."
But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response. [ Mark 15:3-5 ]
Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted for a long
time to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracles. He questioned Jesus at
considerable length, but Jesus made no response. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to
accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult. [ Luke
23:8-11 ]

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But
this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshly part. [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3,
81] from THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977, James M.Robinson, ed, Page 339).

The facts that
(1) Mr. Schroeder's soul departed on the 19th day after the operation, and
(2) his body survived for 19 months, are uncanny reminders that God wanted the world to know the
parallel between Schroeder's situation, and the proven account of Jesus' departure prior to the
arrest, torture, and crucifixion of his soulless body.

Quranic Verses on Jesus

[2:87] We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of
Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that every time a messenger went
to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of
them you killed.

[2:136] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham,
Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their
Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

[2:253] These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, GOD spoke to one, and we
raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with
the Holy Spirit. Had GOD willed, their followers would not have fought with each other, after the clear proofs had
come to them. Instead, they disputed among themselves; some of them believed, and some disbelieved. Had GOD
willed, they would not have fought. Everything is in accordance with GOD's will.

[3:45] The angels said, "O Mary, GOD gives you good news: a Word from Him whose name is `The Messiah,
Jesus the son of Mary. He will be prominent in this life and in the Hereafter, and one of those closest to Me.'

[3:52] When Jesus sensed their disbelief, he said, "Who are my supporters towards GOD?" The disciples said,
"We are GOD's supporters; we believe in GOD, and bear witness that we are submitters."

[3:55] Thus, GOD said, "O Jesus, I am terminating your life, raising you to Me, and ridding you of the disbelievers.
I will exalt those who follow you above those who disbelieve, till the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is the
ultimate destiny of all of you, then I will judge among you regarding your disputes.

[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust,
then said to him, "Be," and he was.

[3:84] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham,
Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs, and in what was given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets from their Lord.
We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

Crucifying "the Body" of Jesus

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they
never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in
this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain,
they never killed him.

4:157-158 Jesus, the real person, the soul, was raised in the same manner as in the death of any righteous person.
Subsequently, his enemies arrested, tortured, and crucified his living, but empty, body. See Appendices 17 & 22,
and the book ``Development of the Christian Doctrine'' by Lisa Spray (United Submitters International, Tucson,
Arizona, 1990).

[4:163] We have inspired you, as we inspired Noah and the prophets after him. And we inspired Abraham, Ismail,
Isaac, Jacob, the Patriarchs, Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon. And we gave David the Psalms.

[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except
the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary,
and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity."
You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to
have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.

[5:46] Subsequent to them, we sent Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming the previous scripture, the Torah. We gave
him the Gospel, containing guidance and light, and confirming the previous scriptures, the Torah, and augmenting its
guidance and light, and to enlighten the righteous.

[5:78] Condemned are those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel, by the tongue of David and Jesus, the
son of Mary. This is because they disobeyed and transgressed.

[5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you
with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the
scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave,
then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and
revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you,
despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, `This is obviously magic.'

The Feast

[5:112] Recall that the disciples said, "O Jesus, son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a feast from the sky?"
He said, "You should reverence GOD, if you are believers."

[5:114] Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "Our god, our Lord, send down to us a feast from the sky. Let it bring plenty
for each and every one of us, and a sign from You. Provide for us; You are the best Provider."

[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary,* did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside
GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have
known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

It is noteworthy that the Quran consistently calls Jesus "son of Mary" and the Bible calls him "son of man". God
knew that some will blaspheme and call him "son of God"!

[19:34] That was Jesus, the son of Mary, and this is the truth of this matter, about which they continue to doubt.

[19:37] The various parties disputed among themselves (regarding the identity of Jesus). Therefore, woe to those
who disbelieve from the sight of a terrible day.

[33:7] Recall that we took from the prophets their covenant, including you (O Muhammad), Noah, Abraham,
Moses, and Jesus the son of Mary. We took from them a solemn pledge.

[42:13] He decreed for you the same religion decreed for Noah, and what we inspired to you, and what we
decreed for Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: "You shall uphold this one religion, and do not divide it." The idol
worshipers will greatly resent what you invite them to do. GOD redeems to Himself whomever He wills; He guides
to Himself only those who totally submit.

[43:63] When Jesus went with the proofs, he said, "I bring to you wisdom, and to clarify some of the matters in
which you dispute. You shall reverence GOD and obey me.

[57:27] Subsequent to them, we sent our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and we gave him the Injeel
(Gospel), and we placed in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy. But they invented hermitism which we
never decreed for them. All we asked them to do was to uphold the commandments approved by GOD. But they
did not uphold the message as they should have. Consequently, we gave those who believed among them their
recompense, while many of them were wicked.

[61:6] Recall that Jesus, son of Mary, said, "O Children of Israel, I am GOD's messenger to you, confirming the
Torah and bringing good news of a messenger to come after me whose name will be even more praised (Ahmad)."
Then, when he showed them the clear proofs, they said, "This is profound magic."

[61:14] O you who believe, be GOD's supporters, like the disciples of Jesus, son of Mary. When he said to them,
"Who are my supporters towards GOD," they said, "We are GOD's supporters." Thus, a group from the Children
of Israel believed, and another group disbelieved. We helped those who believed against their enemy, until they
won.
_________________
iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!!

[blank]

[9karevatan]

again u are misinformed......mohammad was not illiterate and theres no such thing as a plain muslim except us....everyone else is shia and sunni...
but islam in english means submission and i dont like to speak arabic so i say that instead ok?


The ignorant Muslim scholars then decided to proclaim Muhammad
an illiterate man! They figured that this would make the Quran's
extraordinary literary excellence truly miraculous. The word they
relied on to bestow illiteracy upon the Prophet was "UMMY."
Unfortunately for those "scholars," this word clearly means "Gentile,"
or one who does not follow any scripture (Torah, Injeel, or Quran)
[see 2:78, 3:20 & 75, 62:2]; it does NOT mean "illiterate."

The Prophet was a successful merchant. The "Muslim scholars" who
fabricated the illiteracy lie forgot that there were no numbers during the
Prophet's time; the letters of the alphabet were used as numbers.
As a merchant dealing with numbers every day, the Prophet had to know
the alphabet, from one to one-thousand.
The Quran tells us that Muhammad wrote down the Quran - Muhammad's
contemporaries are quoted as saying,



"These are tales from the past that he wrote down. They are being
dictated to him day and night"(25:5).
You cannot "dictate" to an illiterate person. The Prophet's enemies who
accuse him of illiteracy abuse Verse 29:48, which relates specifically to
previous scriptures.


also as far as callin them muslims.......they as in shias and sunnis are based on idolizing muhammad and shia idolize ali and imams therefore they are going against gods direct commands.....

Verse 3:18 states the First Pillar of Islam (Submission): "God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angelsand those who possess knowledge."

This most crucial pillar has been distorted. Millions of Muslims have adopted Satan's polytheistic version, and insist upon mentioning thename of Muhammad besides the name of God. However, the Quran's great criterion in 39:45 stamps such Muslims as disbelievers:

"When God ALONE is mentioned, the hearts of those who do disbelieve in the
Hereafter shrink with aversion, but when others are mentioned with
Him, they become satisfied."

when these people say "la elaha ella allah" they always say "mohammad rasool allah"

therefore they dont mention god alone and that is called "shirk" or idol worship it is condenmed inthe quran numerous times


Since this is the religion of Abraham (2:130, 135; 3:95;
4:125; 6:161; 12:37-38; 16:123; 22:78; Appendix 9), the ONLY creed must be "LAA ELAAHA ELLAA ALLAH (there is no god except the One God)".Muhammad did not exist on earth before Abraham.
_________________
iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!!

[blank]

You are free to believe in anything you want........As you know, I don't give a **** about Mohamad and Qoran and Islam.........I think Islam is basiclly f....cked

[American Visitor]

9karevatan,

As I have said in the past, I respect your reinterpretation of Islam to be a religion of peace. It would be good if more Muslims joind you in your quest for a peaceful Islam. To me it seems that even those who accept Muhammid should hold the hadits in question. However, as a Christian I think it is not my place to tell Muslims how to interpret their religion.

I don't think you understand Christianity. Although rabbinic Jews deeply distrust Christians and may wish to dispute it, scholarship is proving Christianity is a branch of Judiasm. Jesus and all his disciples were practicing Jews. Careful reading of the New Testament gives no support for anti-Semitism whatsoever.

1. The New Testament is clear that Jesus was indeed tortured and killed. There are few things which are more clearly taught in the Bible. Muhammid came up with a different story for his own reasons 700 years after the event. He was clearly not an eyewitness and knew no eyewitnesses.

2. There are several attonement theories and I don't know that this is the forum to discuss them.

3. So far as I can tell, Idolatry was dead within Judiasm after the Babylonian captivity. I see little indication that idolatry was an issue Jesus delt with much. So far as I can tell, Jesus and his disciples' main emphasis was to help people advance to higher levels of moral development in which love and human rights are more important than blind obedience to rules. It was Jesus' teaching upholding human dignity, love and freedom which is the foundation for Western Civilization.

[Guest]

i am not interpereting the religion in my favor instead im only using the quran and carefully reading it....and theres no point to question hadith because they are condemned in the quran itself....

Which Hadith, other than God and His revelations, do they uphold? [45:6]

also as far as jesus is concerned.....God was the witness and God is the author of the quran and not muhammad..its true that mohammad write the quran with his own hands but we must remember that it was "dictated"
to him.....
for american visitor i have this site and it shows a book written by a former priest... http://www.submission.org/christians/



also heres this


Christianity
If Jesus came back to life today, the Christians would crucify him. Outstanding Christian scholars have reached solid conclusions that today's Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus, and that its doctrine was mortally distorted at the infamous Nicene Conferences (325 A.D.). See THE MYTH OF GOD INCARNATE, Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1977. (Check with Amazon.com)

jesus was a dear messenger of god and he would not let him suffer...it is not logical for god to let him be tortured.....he was an honored servant of god


Crucifying "the Body" of Jesus*

[4:157] And for claiming that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of GOD. In fact, they never killed him, they never crucified him - they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain, they never killed him.

[4:158] Instead, GOD raised him to Him; GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.

*4:157-158 Jesus, the real person, the soul, was raised in the same manner as in the death of any righteous person. Subsequently, his enemies arrested, tortured, and crucified his living, but empty, body. See Appendices 17 & 22, and the book "Jesus: Myths and Message" by Lisa Spray (Universal Unity, Fremont, California, 1990 ).

also take a look at this book by lisa spray^^^





also again ......when blank is shown solid facts....he is unable to discuss them..
and continues to use profanity....

[American Visitor]

Guest,

I agree with you on the hadiths. I suspect many of them were made up later to support separate agendas. Since I'm not a Muslim, I don't think it is appropriate for me to go further however.

There may be some Christians who would crucify Jesus today. Those who killed Jews because of anti-Semitism were in fact killing Jesus. Jesus said what wrongs we do to other people we are doing to Him. I suppose if Muhammid came back some of he Muslims would probably kill him also. That says little about the authenticity of the faith of the majority of Christians or Muslims however does it?

History states very clearly that Jesus was tortured and crucified. Jesus told us to take up our crosses and follow Him. For a Christian a martyr is someone who is killed by an unbeliever because of his faith, not someone who dies killing people of other religions. There is entirely a different outlook here between much of Islam and Christianity. Jesus and some of His followers were tortured and crucified for their faith and died praying for the forgiveness of those doing the crimes. Although you are clearly not one of them, Muslims often seem to think they honor God by themselves doing the torturing and crucifying. By refusing to accept the historical fact that Jesus died for His faith, you are denying an important truth which He was trying to teach us.

[9karevatan]

[American Visitor]

9karevatan,

I think we both agree that violence against others, in the name of God, whose only crime is to believe differently is wrong. I support and applaud your commitment to non-violence. However, when you discuss when someone's soul leaves their body, you loose me. I don't know that much about souls.

I'm mostly interested in Jesus' teachings that God is our Father who loves us supremely and we are supposed to show our love to God by kindness to others. The understanding of God's complete love and forgiveness frees us to love other people and to respect their right to live freely even when they disagree with us.

It is this love for freedom and respect for the equality of all mankind which motivated the founders of our constitution. The fact that it has taken 200 years to bring that vision of equality into fruition in our own country shows how revolutionary their dream was. Our ultimate goal is to help people all around the world live in free democratic countries with complete religious freedom, freedom of speech and all the other freedoms found in the bill of rights.

[9karevatan]

NOVA has prooved that at the moment of death the human body loses weight which is the soul....

yes i agree with u up to the point where u say that jesus is the son of god......
_________________
iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!!

[American Visitor]

9karevatan,

I think Jesus was very clear that He was the Son of God. Exactly what that means is open to interpretation. I believe we are all God's sons and serve Him out of love. That is different from many Muslims who call themselves slaves of Allah.

To understand God is impossible for us and ultimately is a matter of faith. From what I read it appears Jesus had a pre-existence and knew the Father intimately before He was sent to this earth to share the knowledge about God's love with us. He clearly never claimed to be the Father and the New Testament says no one has seen the Father but Jesus.

To my knowledge, Jesus never wrote anything down. He came to live the perfect life. He so submitted His will to that of His Father and was so intimately connected with the Father emotionally that when we see Jesus we see the Father. When Jesus shows us His love, He shows us the Father's love. When He died, the father died with Him.

If we accept the premise that no one has seen the Father, then exactly who was the Jehovah who appeared to Abraham and to Moses in the Old Testament?

[stefania]