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Time is Running Out Where Is The Real Support?
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American Visitor



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Redemption,

I agree with you but we are in the middle of an election year and the liberal media and the Democrats have driven Bush's numbers so low he will have to struggle to get back in this fall. I'm doing all I can and plan to donate to his re-election compaign, but it will be a struggle. Those are the unfortunate facts. The liberals are far too busy pushing gay marriage to worry about some Iranian women who are being raped. If Bush went to congress and told them he wanted to invade Iran, they would probably impeach him.

I understand in some California public schools they are teaching Islam now to grade schoolers. The liberals think they have a deal with the Islamists and if we just treat them nicely and stop acting so belligerantly they will stop hating us. Everything is the fault of the US. Everyone on earth is good except for us and we must humble ourselves and let the UN and the French take the lead from now on. Even then we are to regard ourselves as the scum of the earth.

I'm sorry to have to say that but that is the poisinous atmosphere we will all live in for the next year. If the Iranian Mullahs develop atom bombs the liberals will be glad because it would put an end to any possibility of our agression against the legitimate regime now in place. According to them, and I've been told this personally, George Bush is the main danger to world peace. Also we will have to stop supporting Israel ofcourse since the Islamists will be angry at us if we don't.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2004 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

American Visitor wrote:
Redemption,

If Bush went to congress and told them he wanted to invade Iran, they would probably impeach him.


Part of your response is in today Mr. Michael Ledeen article:

Quote:
We will never have true freedom and stability in Iraq until the terror masters in Tehran and Damascus have been defeated and removed from power.

It is a strategic error of enormous dimensions to focus all our attention on Iraq, thereby leaving the Iranian mullahs and the Syrian Baathists a free hand. It has just cost hundreds of lives in Baghdad and may well cost many more. If all goes badly, it may yet lead to our defeat in the region.

Our greatest weapon against the terror masters is not military, but political.
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cyrus
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 4:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

American Visitor wrote:
With no help from the Europeans I don't see how the US would get involved for at least a year. Our government is trying to stabilize Iraq right now. This is an election year and Kerry has already said he will go around the world apolagizing for Bush's foreign policy and promising to let the French and the UN dictate our foreign policy. He will crawl to Iran and beg forgiveness from the Mullahs because we have called them bad names and promise we will be good boys in the future.

As anxious as we all are for intervention, I don't see how Bush could possible do anything before the election. The Democrats are trashing Bush because we didn't work to keep the dictator in power in Hati and claiming their humanitarian mission to try to save his life was a kidnapping. Things are getting ugly over here and our national security and your freedom is completely secondary to Kerry's bid to win election.



I don't agree, if president Bush is really after regime change in Iran he has many options and it is possible to change the regime in Iran in less than 3 months without using U.S. military force and without EU support. The first condition to win, is not to listen to Ayatollah Jack Straw, and Blair. Second condition is to listen to our great American Scholar Mr. Michael Ledeen.
If president Bush can not change the regime in less than 3 months
he does not have a chance to win the Nov election. As long as the Islamic Clerical Regime is in power the War on Terror can be considered as a joke .
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus, i want to agree with you, because i wish this to happen within 3 months. Sadly, i think that nothing new will happen till November 3th.


First thing to do for you, dear, is to rally in support of Bush's re-election.


John Kerry's victory will be your defeat.
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abaucero



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
Posts: 61
Location: Italia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know what you want the US to do, the US is in a very hard position, they're criticized and attacked if they act, and they are criticized and attacked if they don't act. Take example of what happened in Kerbala on tuesday: the US were told to leave the Iraqis alone and not to interfere in their religious demonstrations, otherwise they would be seen as occupants. They've done exactly that, leaving the security organization of the ceremony to Iraqis, then there was a bombing and everyone started blaming the US for not acting to prevent it. What do you think they should do? Try for once to be more friendly to them, everyone is asking them something: do this, don't do that, and they always get criticized. I've heard many voices in this forum saying that the US should only lend a moral support, that they should only call for democracy in Iran and leave the action to Iranians, because they are a proud people and they want to establish their own democracy. Bush is doing that, and now you all criticize him because he only produces words? Just answer a simple question: do you want the US to invade Iran or not? Because you're talking about exactly that, an invasion, and I'm sure that if they invade you will be thankful for a couple of days, then you'll start demonstrating against them, burning American flags and telling them "thank you but now go home". In Italy we have a say that explains that you can't have both things, you have to choose one, what do you choose, American involvement or not? Please make up your minds before criticizing.
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

abaucero wrote:
I've heard many voices in this forum saying that the US should only lend a moral support, that they should only call for democracy in Iran and leave the action to Iranians, because they are a proud people and they want to establish their own democracy. Bush is doing that, and now you all criticize him because he only produces words? Just answer a simple question: do you want the US to invade Iran or not?


If you think that what Bush has done and said so far can really be summed up as giving moral support then I guess we disagree on what exactly is considered moral support. To say in a speach "North Korea and Iran threaten the peace" doesn't lend moral support. To say in a speach "We support the Iranian People" but then fail to elaborate on it or fail to address the world with such words doesn't lend moral support. Second off all, it's more than moral support.. It's political support and action.. It's telling the EU to fuckoff.. It's sending the regime to the security council... It's condeming the regime day in and day out on national and international ariwaves.. THAT IS MORAL SUPPORT - a mere 15 second paragraph of words strung together to show the appearance of moral support is not really moral support - it's called BULLSHIT.. The mentality that says wait until after November is really STUPID, won't WORK, and is totally mind-boggling to say the least.. As an American citizen, I know what the situation is like here, and I know that Bush is going to have his hands full of **** if we don't make REAL PROGRESS on the War On Terror - which means MULLAHS FALL - Libya means ****, although they can prop it up to mean something great... What about the real masterminds - why are you going after the symptoms without going after the fucking SOURCE!!!!!

ATTACK THE SOURCE, NOT THE SYMPTOMS!!!!

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cyrus
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Joined: 24 Jun 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:23 pm    Post subject: President Bush has not used all his options regarding Iran Reply with quote

abaucero wrote:
I don't know what you want the US to do, the US is in a very hard position, they're criticized and attacked if they act, and they are criticized and attacked if they don't act. Take example of what happened in Kerbala on tuesday: the US were told to leave the Iraqis alone and not to interfere in their religious demonstrations, otherwise they would be seen as occupants. They've done exactly that, leaving the security organization of the ceremony to Iraqis, then there was a bombing and everyone started blaming the US for not acting to prevent it. What do you think they should do? Try for once to be more friendly to them, everyone is asking them something: do this, don't do that, and they always get criticized. I've heard many voices in this forum saying that the US should only lend a moral support, that they should only call for democracy in Iran and leave the action to Iranians, because they are a proud people and they want to establish their own democracy. Bush is doing that, and now you all criticize him because he only produces words? Just answer a simple question: do you want the US to invade Iran or not? Because you're talking about exactly that, an invasion, and I'm sure that if they invade you will be thankful for a couple of days, then you'll start demonstrating against them, burning American flags and telling them "thank you but now go home". In Italy we have a say that explains that you can't have both things, you have to choose one, what do you choose, American involvement or not? Please make up your minds before criticizing.


- President Bush can declare the Islamic Clerical Regime of Iran as illegitimate and unfit to govern and therefore call for a free referendum to be held in Iran now by well-respected international organizations.

- President Bush can ask for freeing all political prisoners in Iran.

- President Bush can provide fund for electing the top 100 true Iranian and Iranian-American reprehensive in U.S. as a formal group to replace the regime during regime transition.

- President Bush can give an ultimatum to the regime, urging it to step down peacefully because they have lost all legitimacy.

- President Bush can provide financial support for general strike in Iran and stop the oil flow to EU and Japan.

- President Bush can ask for all top level regime officials to be investigated and prosecuted by respected International Courts for genocide and many other crimes against humanity.
- The continued legitimization of the Islamic regime in Iran must stop at once.
- President Bush can ask the UN to immediately send a team to observe the situation in Iran.
- President Bush can support the general demand of the Iranian people for a free referendum and elections observed by international organizations.
-

Due to the fact that the public does not have access to secret U.S. data regarding the regime security forces and what percentage of them will support Iranian people for Free Iran against the clerical regime, therefore we can not have any public suggestion at this time. Probably President Bush is the only one who has the exact data and knows the true available options.

The Islamic Clerical Regime Must Go Now, Iran Is Not Milking Cow for EU Welfare Society
Any Delay and Promise For After U.S. Election Result Is A Game Not To Do the Right Thing Now


Last edited by cyrus on Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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abaucero



Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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Location: Italia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyrus, I agree with you, but you have to consider that it's not so easy to be the only world power. The US has many concerns and it has to balance very carefully every action. I think that the change has to come from Iran, the US can give funds to the opposition, it can declare the regime unfit to rule, but in the end it's the Iranian people who will have to fight and topple the regime. And beware, it won't be easy and peaceful, it will be bloody and very hard. But you can take courage after seeing what is going on in Latin America: Aristide is gone, maybe Chavez will follow. I think that these examples can give courage to the Iranian people, but it's the Iranian opposition that will have to proclaim a general strike, which can be the beginning of the revolution. You have to act first, then the US will give you support and legitimacy, but you can't wait for Bush to lead your revolution, otherwise it will be seen as a US-led golpe. You start the revolution, the US will follow, not the other way round.
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cyrus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abaucero wrote:
Cyrus, I agree with you, but you have to consider that it's not so easy to be the only world power. The US has many concerns and it has to balance very carefully every action. I think that the change has to come from Iran, the US can give funds to the opposition, it can declare the regime unfit to rule, but in the end it's the Iranian people who will have to fight and topple the regime. And beware, it won't be easy and peaceful, it will be bloody and very hard. But you can take courage after seeing what is going on in Latin America: Aristide is gone, maybe Chavez will follow. I think that these examples can give courage to the Iranian people, but it's the Iranian opposition that will have to proclaim a general strike, which can be the beginning of the revolution. You have to act first, then the US will give you support and legitimacy, but you can't wait for Bush to lead your revolution, otherwise it will be seen as a US-led golpe. You start the revolution, the US will follow, not the other way round.


Over 100,000 Political executions and many 1000s political torture victims in past 25 years are the real proof that the Iranian people have fought very hard against the Clerical regime, Master of Terrors and EU while U.S. was silent.
The Iranian people have fought very hard against Terror Masters without much support . The Islamist Clerical Terror masters spend over 100,000,000 dollars in Washington alone each year, where is the U.S. financial support for Iran's secular democracy movement? Financial support for freedom and secular democracy movement should not be secret.

The Berlin Wall did not fall by itself. In the connected world Iranian people can not gain their freedom without major outside direct support.
If the regime hard core Islamic Guards and their Arab mercenaries massacre the freedom loving unarmed Iranian people the U.S should be ready to send military force to support Iranian oppositions. Iranian people need assurance from U.S.

Stupid EU politicians benefited most from Fanatic Islamists for cheap oil ... but they have not felt the danger of Islamists yet, the danger is far greater than the benefit.


Last edited by cyrus on Fri Mar 05, 2004 2:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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Location: Scandinavia

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree on the fact that Bush could do far more. But then again I support him in the coming elections. The heat should defintely be turned up if Bush wins the elections. My biggest fear is that Kerry wins. Because if he does, then may God help our people.
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Pyandeh bd xke Irn e m!
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

abaucero wrote:
Cyrus, I agree with you, but you have to consider that it's not so easy to be the only world power. The US has many concerns and it has to balance very carefully every action. I think that the change has to come from Iran, the US can give funds to the opposition, it can declare the regime unfit to rule, but in the end it's the Iranian people who will have to fight and topple the regime. And beware, it won't be easy and peaceful, it will be bloody and very hard. But you can take courage after seeing what is going on in Latin America: Aristide is gone, maybe Chavez will follow. I think that these examples can give courage to the Iranian people, but it's the Iranian opposition that will have to proclaim a general strike, which can be the beginning of the revolution. You have to act first, then the US will give you support and legitimacy, but you can't wait for Bush to lead your revolution, otherwise it will be seen as a US-led golpe. You start the revolution, the US will follow, not the other way round.


So meanwhile you feel that Bush shouldn't condemn the Mullahs and what they are doing not only to their people but also their efforts to thrwart any progress in Iraq? What are the Iranian people supposed to do everytime they go out into the streets to protest and are murdered? Tell me? They are protesting everyday.. REAL SUPPORT: is an internationally televised speech that addresses the Mullahs in Iran and demands that they heed the demands and will of the Iranian people.. Are you not putting 2 and 2 together? Do you think the Mullahs want the Bush Admin to be in office another 4 years? NO THEY DON'T.. THey will do everything in their power to get the Bush Office out - so if Bush doesn't get rid of the Mullahs first, then come late summer and fall - the Mullahs will turn Iraq into a BLOODBATH.. You cannot deal with these guys.. You cannot appease these guys.. You can only TAKE THEM OUT - and you do that by supporting the Iranian people, with more than a few words.. LAY THE PRESSURE ON GEORGE - AMERICA WILL SUPPORT YOU!!!! LISTEN TO MICHAEL LEDEEN - HE HAS THE RIGHT IDEA!!!!
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saman wrote:
I agree on the fact that Bush could do far more. But then again I support him in the coming elections. The heat should defintely be turned up if Bush wins the elections. My biggest fear is that Kerry wins. Because if he does, then may God help our people.


Yes, I want Bush rather than Kerry, but I feel like an asshole supporting a man who only speaks rhetoric and little bits of support without any substantial action on those words - you see what I mean? Bush is a strong man, and he should get MORE AGGRESSIVE with the WAR ON TERROR.. .Of course, that is if we want to win it and continue on with the evolution of humanity, so we can all make money and live in peace.. This war stuff needs to end eventaully, but first get rid of the terrorist regimes!!!!
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

REDEMPTION, I AGREE 100% WITH YOU..

I DID NOT SAY TO WAIT TILL NOVEMBER..

I ONLY SAID THAT SADLY I DON'T EXPECT MUCH TILL NOVEMBER.

BUT MEANWHILE.........SMCCDI'S ARYO PIROUZNIA HAS CALLED ALL THE IRANIANS OF GOODWILL IN THE US TO VOTE FOR PRESIDENT BUSH BECAUSE THE ENEMY IN AMERICA IS KERRY.

KERRY IS DANGEROUS.

KERRY IS A THREAT FOR PEACE IN THE WORLD AND FOR THE IRANIAN FREEDOM MOVEMENT.

I HOPE YOU DO YOUR BEST TO GO TO VOTE AND VOTE FOR BUSH-

IT'S OK THAT WE ALL BLAME HIM FOR SOME OF HIS MISTAKES ( MICHAEL LEDEEN DOES AS WELL ), BUT LIKE MICHAEL, YOU ALSO MUST VOTE FOR BUSH... IF YOU DON'T GO TO VOTE YOU ARE GIVING VICTORY TO KERRY-


FRIENDS IN IRAN SAY THAT THEY HOPE THAT BUSH WINS AGAIN. THEY KNOW KERRY AND THEY FEAR HIM.
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once Again: I voted for Bush the first time and I will do so the second time around of course.. But like I said, I will go to the polls feeling like an ASSHOLE if by November I have yet to see any action from Bush on Iran and the Mullahs.. Stefania: WORDS ARE NOT ENOUGH!!!!
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cyrus
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2004 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We evaluate our president performance against facts, real data and not TV Advertisements. We expect real results. If Sadam non religious brutal dictatorship is replaced by Mullahs brutal religious dictatorship is not considered as progress and good thing. As a super power and world leader can not accept any constitutions in Iraq and Afghanistan that does not separate religion and state. American Tax payers spent over 200 billion dollars therefore Iraqis, and Afghans should be forced to use well tested U.S. constitution for next 20 years until they can become a stable country then they can enhance it as they wish. If we want peace and security the religion must stay out of politics otherwise we will have hell in this planet.
In case of Iran the Islamist regime must change in short period of time otherwise president Bush words can not be trusted.


Last edited by cyrus on Thu Mar 04, 2004 5:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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