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[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great
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redemption
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California
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 Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Lyceum wrote: | Time is running out for the Western world, if we don't take care of the HQ of terrorism - Iran. You don't negotiate with an evil dictatorship...
I recommend you all to read Dr. Leonard Peikoff's article, "End States Who Sponsor Terrorism" (10/02/01). You could find the link to his article and other links (e.g. my post, "UNCLE SAM TOUR": AFGHANISTAN 10/07/01, IRAQ 03/19/03, IRAN XX/XX/04?) in my post, THE BATTLE OF IDEAS: CHICKENHAWKS VERSUS PACIFICISTS.
By the way: Have you seen Cox & Forkum's "Iran Cartoons" compilation?
Best Premises,
Martin Lindeskog - American in Spirit.
Gothenburg, Sweden (a.k.a. the socialist "paradise"). |
Ayn Rand - good stuff! Okay, I tried to find the article but am getting a broken link, do you have a link to the actual article. BTW: I agree with you 100% that terror central needs to be taken down VERY SOON if we are to win the "War On Terror" - If we don't, history will show that this WAR was complete bullshit and really wasn't launched in an effort to bring freedom and democracy but was rather enacted for other agendas.
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redemption
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| abaucero wrote: | | people don't mistake me, I'm not calling for non-action, I would be more than happy to see a regime change in Iran, it would be the best development for the Middle East. I'm just urging you not to start hating Bush if he doesn't act immediately, you have to understand that the US is taking care of matters all over the world, and that inside Bush's administration there are many views. I would like to see action, but I'm realistic, action will be seen only if you start a campaign that really threatens the regime, then the US will give you full support. Otherwise it will be seen as a coup, or if it fails as a coup attempt, and the US presence in the Middle East will be in real danger. You have to start a general strike or full-fledged demonstrations, you have to catch the eye of the western press, when the world starts talking about Iran as it did last year, and if those demos are seen as regime-threatening, then the US will do something. Until then it's hard, if the US tries something and it gets messed up it will only give more support to regime propaganda, it will enflame Arab streets and it will render American position in Iraq very dangerous. You must be seen as the ones who start everything, and the US must be seen only as an outside help, otherwise it will blow up. Please don't mistake my words, I want to see change, but I'm also realistic. |
I ask you - is not a complete BOYCOTT of Elections enough..? Is not 100,000 + political prisoners in jail enough? Is not complete mismanagement of the country and devastating poverty and drug abuse enough? Is not mass execution, rape and torture enough? When is enough enough? Tell me... What more can the Iranian people do.. What more can they do but go out in the streets and get beat down? America is supposed to be the SHINING BEACON OF DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM - America must defend freedom everywhere - it will payoff GREATLY in the end!!!!
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redemption
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| stefania wrote: | | redemption wrote: | | Once Again: I voted for Bush the first time and I will do so the second time around of course.. But like I said, I will go to the polls feeling like an ASSHOLE if by November I have yet to see any action from Bush on Iran and the Mullahs.. Stefania: WORDS ARE NOT ENOUGH!!!! |
dear Redemption, once again i repeat that i agree 100% with you !
IF IT WAS FOR ME, I WOULD HAVE HELPED THE IRANIAN PEOPLE RIGHT NOW !
BUT AGAIN, IN MY OPINION, THE US CANNOT ACT ALONE. IF THEY DO, THE REGIME DOESN'T COLLAPSE BECAUSE IT IS SUPPORTED BY THE REST OF THE WORLD: EU, JAPAN, AUSTRALIA, ARAB COUNTRIES, AFRICAN COUNTRIES, ETC.. !
THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TOTAL ISOLATION.
HOWEVER, I THINK THAT THE OBJECTIVE NOW IS TO ASSURE THAT JOHN KERRY WILL BE NOT ELECTED.
IF HE IS,. IT WILL BE THE END OF ALL THE HOPES.
DEAR, I AM IN CONTACT WITH MICHAEL LEDEEN.. I CAN ASK HIM TO PUT PRESSURE ON THE PRESIDENT ?
WE MUST MASS SEND FAXES TO THE PRESIDENT....I THINK THAT IF WRE ALL SEND FAXES TO THE PRESIDENT, HE WILL HEAR US .
DEAR REDEMPTION, PLEASE DON'T GET ME WRONG ALWAYS !!! |
I don't get you wrong, but I don't care if you're in contact with GOD. The bottom line is John Kerry may very well beat Bush in November if Bush doesn't make good on promises and a really strong assertive effort in the War on Terror.. Are you not thinking? Do you realize that the Democrats will bring up the Iran issue and say "WHY DID YOU GO GET SADDAM when the MULLAHS are the MAIN SOURCE of INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM? WHY Did you not defend the Iranian people when they were asking for support?" And what will Bush say? He will say .. "Uhh Uhh I made a few speeches.." Stefania - wake UP! A Speech is just a speech - a few words linked together, sometimes they sound good, sometimes they don't - but in the end a speech is only as strong and as good as the actions that follow.. Don't you get it? Bush can't afford to hold off on Iran and hope on beating Kerry - do you know HOW RISKY THAT IS? Frankly I'm not going to go bash Kerry if Bush isn't doing anything positive either.. IF BUSH HOWEVER outlines a startegy and policy of DEALING WITH THE REGIME and it makes sense, and is very hard-nosed THEN MANY IN HIS BASE WHO ARE ASKING FOR MORE CLARITY and also MANY IRANIAN AND NON-IRANIAN SUPPORTERS will do EVERYTHING TO KEEP HIM FOR ANOTHER 4 YEARS (Including Money and Working for BUSH/CHENEY CAMPAIGN).. If he just talks talks talks with no action - what's the point in fighting for BUSH? Tell me.. What is the point? Can you convince me otherwise..? THERE IS NO POINT in fighting for Bush if he doesn't really go after these bastards... We need leadership - not a figurehead that reads a decent speech twice a year.. ACTION PLEASE!!!!
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stefania
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 4250
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2004 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Don't say wake up to me please!
Then, i repeat once again that the main enemy for the Iranian Freedom Movement in the US is Kerry.
You are free to vote for whoever you want. But once again, your vote for Kerry would be a vote for the Islamic Republic Regime.
The Iranian-Americans has rallied in support of President Bush against Kerry.
Again, i think that you get me wrong on a lot of issues.
What you think i would do if i was Italy's President, for exemple?
I think you wish that to happen..
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Rob..NC
Joined: 23 Feb 2004
Posts: 32
Location: NC,USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 1:45 am Post subject: |
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..when people are suffering can you ever be fast enough, I think not,this struggle isn`t going to be solved any time soon.
I`m sad that people are going to die.I dont see anyone else in the world lifting a finger to help.They are still sulking,so as free AMERICAN,we now see who our freinds are and the old adage goes what comes around goes around!!THE UN IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BUCH OF CS APPEASERS,SO I VOTE TO DISBAND THE ORGANISATION,THEIR USELESS ANYWAY!!!
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American Visitor
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 2:23 am Post subject: |
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I love all the posts up to now. This is a very important discussion.
It is clear to me that Bush is well meaning and is much better than Kerry. It is also clear that Kerry and the Democrats have greatly weakened Bushes hand by calling him a liar and doing their best to undermine our president and the troops in a time of war. This has greatly strengthened the hands of the Mullahs in Iraq who will be the big winners from the Bush bashing. They all read the news and know exactly who is down in the poles.
Althought Bush's heart is in the right place, he needs to be educated and we must all do our part. His mistakes include the following:
1. Bush thinks and has told the nation Islam is a "peaceful religion" and that the terrorists are just a few extremests. Perhaps he has to say that in ouder to get Muslim cooperation in helping defeat Al Queda, but it greatly weakens his hand when he is trying to rebuild Afghanistan and Iraq. All I can say is that with democracy, both countries have a shot at slowly reforming, but it will take years.
2. Just how to put pressure on the Iranian regime. There have been some excellent suggestions here. They need to be combined into one post and put out to everyone we can reach. There are many sincere people who don't know what they can do. Since the Iranians know their own country, it is you who can help us to respond properly.
3. We must remember we are in a spiritual battle. Many Muslims would switch sides if we could present the truth as we know it to them. Each of us has our own spirituality, but we also share truth in common which is clearly absent from Islam. What are those principles and can we put our arguments into a post which could convince Muslims. The Mullahs are probably too hardened in evil to change, but many people are deceived. We must find the best approach to help Muslims understand that they are destroying themselves and will take down the entire world if they don't change. |
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redemption
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| stefania wrote: | Don't say wake up to me please!
Then, i repeat once again that the main enemy for the Iranian Freedom Movement in the US is Kerry.
You are free to vote for whoever you want. But once again, your vote for Kerry would be a vote for the Islamic Republic Regime.
The Iranian-Americans has rallied in support of President Bush against Kerry.
Again, i think that you get me wrong on a lot of issues.
What you think i would do if i was Italy's President, for exemple?
I think you wish that to happen.. |
Stefania, my feeling is that being weak on Iran is going to HURT Bush during the election more than HELP him.. See what I'm saying.. And I hope that if you were the Italian President you would tell the rest of the EU to screwoff and stop assisting the Mullahs in their mass murder and MASSIVE HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSES!
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redemption
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob..NC wrote: | ..when people are suffering can you ever be fast enough, I think not,this struggle isn`t going to be solved any time soon.
I`m sad that people are going to die.I dont see anyone else in the world lifting a finger to help.They are still sulking,so as free AMERICAN,we now see who our freinds are and the old adage goes what comes around goes around!!THE UN IS NOTHING MORE THAN A BUCH OF CS APPEASERS,SO I VOTE TO DISBAND THE ORGANISATION,THEIR USELESS ANYWAY!!! |
Drop the UN for sure - and WE SHOULD BACKUP the words Bush have spoken which have truly been great words and great ideas for freedom and democracy.. How about we freaking act on them - else lose much credibility..
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redemption
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| American Visitor wrote: | I love all the posts up to now. This is a very important discussion.
It is clear to me that Bush is well meaning and is much better than Kerry. It is also clear that Kerry and the Democrats have greatly weakened Bushes hand by calling him a liar and doing their best to undermine our president and the troops in a time of war. This has greatly strengthened the hands of the Mullahs in Iraq who will be the big winners from the Bush bashing. They all read the news and know exactly who is down in the poles.
Althought Bush's heart is in the right place, he needs to be educated and we must all do our part. His mistakes include the following:
1. Bush thinks and has told the nation Islam is a "peaceful religion" and that the terrorists are just a few extremests. Perhaps he has to say that in ouder to get Muslim cooperation in helping defeat Al Queda, but it greatly weakens his hand when he is trying to rebuild Afghanistan and Iraq. All I can say is that with democracy, both countries have a shot at slowly reforming, but it will take years.
2. Just how to put pressure on the Iranian regime. There have been some excellent suggestions here. They need to be combined into one post and put out to everyone we can reach. There are many sincere people who don't know what they can do. Since the Iranians know their own country, it is you who can help us to respond properly.
3. We must remember we are in a spiritual battle. Many Muslims would switch sides if we could present the truth as we know it to them. Each of us has our own spirituality, but we also share truth in common which is clearly absent from Islam. What are those principles and can we put our arguments into a post which could convince Muslims. The Mullahs are probably too hardened in evil to change, but many people are deceived. We must find the best approach to help Muslims understand that they are destroying themselves and will take down the entire world if they don't change. |
I agree with some of the stuff you have said - I think that we should stay away from trying to convince Muslims anything about their religion except that it's better to be more of a liberal Muslim that a fanatic, much better.. I am one of those who believes there is good in all religions - but that these relgiions can also be manipulated and applied for devious acts - but we don't need to address this at the present. What we do need to address is the fact that these Mullahs in Iran are not even religious - eventhough they have used religion and the twisting of it for all of their evil deeds.. They are wicked business men who kill, mame, torture, rape and use all other forms of repression in order to stay in power. How on earth can an Iraq that is truly free and propserous take shape if you have the bloody Mullahs in POWER next door, because IF a GREAT IRAQ takes shape that will truly set off the fuse of democracy and freedom throughout Iran and the Mullahs will be done for sure.. I don't know what the US Government is waiting for, and what sort of deals we have made with the Europeans, but to keep waiting and waiting and waiting and not standing with the Iranian people in their fight against Tyranny - a fight that will surely result in freedom and democracy - and rub off throughout the Middle East = MOre Globalization, More Prosperity, MOre WOrking TOgether, More Peace, More Evolution - WILL BE GREAT FOR ALL OF US!!!! BUt no, it's all about oil and the Mullahs are the means for getting CHEAP OIL - well I say **** all the Oil Pigs who are causing this travesty not only for the Iranian people but for American GIs that are getting killed everyday..
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stefania
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 4250
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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ok redemption.
FIRST THING I WOULD DO IF I WAS ITALIAN PRIME MINISTER WAS TO BREAK THE RELATIONSHIPS WITH IRAN, CUBA AND ALL THE NON-DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES.. I DON'T SEE WHAT A COUNTRY AS MINE HAS TO EARN FROM A REGIME AS THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC..
BY THE WAY,DEAR FRIENDS, TOMORROW (MARCH 7TH ) IS MY BIRTHDAY.. HERE IS 12:30 AT NIGHT, SO I TURNED 22 YEARS OLD 
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American Visitor
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Redemption,
How do we find a moderate Islam? Most Muslims I have talked to brag that Islam has laid out the rules for a perfect society given by God Himself and is therefore much better than Western Civilization. How do you counter that argument.
The only hope for the Middle East as for the rest of the world is complete religious freedom, separation of church and state and liberal democrace. Can Muslims live in a "secular" society or will they be forever at war against it? How do you convince Muslims to accept a free democracy?
I'm not trying to bring up road blocks and if this is not an appropriate subject to discuss here, please let me know. I'm all for freedom but am discouraged with the way the Iraqis seem to want to insert religion into their government. They have the example of Iran next door, many of them are Shiites and see what is happening, and yet they want their religious leaders to dictate the form of government they will have. |
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redemption
Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| American Visitor wrote: | Redemption,
The only hope for the Middle East as for the rest of the world is complete religious freedom, separation of church and state and liberal democrace. Can Muslims live in a "secular" society or will they be forever at war against it? How do you convince Muslims to accept a free democracy?
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I agree with that quote 100%.. Also: I know you're not trying to bring up roadblocks, these are all important issues. It's good that you brought up the issue of a Muslim state being setup in Iraq and the need for separation of Religion and State. I don't know what is going on and what the United States is thinking.. I don't know how the Europeans have played us but you can know that they are playing us.. There must be no, and I mean no tolerance for any type of government based on religion in Iraq - unless of course we are interested in setting up a government similar to the theocracy of the Mullahs and that which looks like is taking shape in Afghanistan.. What are we doing? We should really be saying screw Sistani - and we should help overthrow the Mullahs, a FREE IRAN would give the United States maximum leverage over Sistani and the nuts who want to be the next Ayatollah Khomeinis.. We need leadership in America - and we need it now.. We need George Bush to take charge and tell the rest of the world what is needed - we shouldn't hesitate to DIFFER with England... We don't need to be on the same page as the Brits all the time - anyhow, our American Ancestors had to fight off the damn Brits to win our freedom.. We should be watchful and wary of their intentions.. -- anyhow, that's a discussion for another day..
The regime in Iran needs to go, and any ideology that says sit and wait - is in my view - faulty, and will result in consequences far worse than those which may result if we work hard now to overthrow the regime... Can't you picture it now - the Iranian people overthrow the Mullahs and Bush runs his re-election on that, and shows how great this is, how democracy and freedom cannot be stopped by any terrorist, etc.. etc.. He would get re-elected for sure!!!!
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American Visitor
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2004 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Redemption,
Should we force the people of Iraq to accept a secular democracy? I don't think it would work. Until the people themselves come to realize the necessity of complete separation of church and state and complete religious freedom, it is impossible to have a truely free democratic society. From what I've seen, Muslims are not there yet. I'm hoping that some of the panelists here can help in this matter. |
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asher
Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:43 am Post subject: |
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Redemption, excellent points. I lived in Turkey for two years - which I realize is a very different culture from Iran - and experienced a secular Muslim state. It can work. Sure, Turkey has its own problems, particularly repression of ethnic minorities; but that's a separate issue.
People should be free to practice their religion as they see fit, or not at all.
I don't know what Sistani is up to and I don't know what the future holds for your neighbors in Iraq. I do know that the Iranian people have suffered under the mullahs long enough. As you say, the US should not be afraid to "declare independence" from Britain - not to metion the feckless EU - and support the Iranian people's struggle for freedom. And freedom means both freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion. |
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stefania
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 4250
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2004 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Yes Kerravon, Cyrus is right. Damn Brits. They don't care about the plight of the iranian people. Don't they think that the Iranians deserve freedom as the Iraqis do?? While America is sincere in his own Mission to Free the world's oppressed , Brits are not.
They are opportunist like the other Europeans (namely the French,the Germans, The Russians, etc..)
Btw, dear friends.. today is my birthday 
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"I'm ready to die for you to be able to say your own opinions, even if i strongly disagree with you" (Voltaire) |
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