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Iran's War Threat is Very Real

 
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cyrus
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:29 am    Post subject: Iran's War Threat is Very Real Reply with quote

Tuesday, August 31, 2004

Iran's War Threat is Very Real

August 19, 2004
The Washington Times
Martin Sieff, UPI Senior News Analyst

Source: http://iranvajahan.net/cgi-bin/news.pl?l=en&y=2004&m=08&d=31&a=6


Washington -- Forget an October Surprise, a much worse one could come in September: Full-scale war between the United States and Iran may be far closer than the American public might imagine.

For Iranian Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani Wednesday warned frankly and openly that if his military commanders believed the United States was serious about attacking his country to destroy its nuclear power facility at Bushehr, or to topple its Islamic theocratic form of government, they would not sit back passively and wait for the U.S. armed forces to strike the first blow, as President Saddam Hussein in neighboring Iraq did in March 2003. They would strike first.

"We will not sit to wait for what others will do to us," Shamkhani told an interviewer on the Qatar-based al-Jazeera satellite television news network, which is widely watched throughout the Middle East.

"Some military commanders in Iran are convinced that preventive operations which the Americans talk about are not their monopoly."

The Iranian defense minister was speaking in response to an increasing barrage of tough, even ominous statements from senior U.S. officials that Iranian leaders and many Middle East diplomats believe parallel the drumbeat of rhetoric that prepared the American public for the war in Iraq a year and a half ago.

On Aug. 8, National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice said the world was "worried and suspicious" about Iran's nuclear program and she made clear the Bush administration was determined not to let the Iranians develop nuclear weapons from their new Russian-built reactor. So seriously did Rice intend the message to be taken that she repeated it twice in the same day in separate interviews to different network news shows.

Just this Tuesday, one of the hottest hawks in the Bush administration, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control and International Security John Bolton told a sympathetic audience at the right-wing Hudson Institute in Washington that the Iranian nuclear program had to be taken up by the U.N. Security Council. "To fail to do so would risk sending a signal to would-be proliferators that there are no serious consequences for pursuing a secret nuclear weapons programs," he said. "We cannot let Iran, a leading sponsor of international terrorism, acquire nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them to Europe, most of central Asia and the Middle East, or beyond," Bolton said. "Without serious, concerted, immediate intervention by the international community, Iran will be well on the road to doing so."

Bolton's tough talk came after reports that the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna appears unlikely to announce next month that Iran's nuclear program contains military elements. Nor, according to these published reports, is the IAEA expected to recommend referring the Iranian nuclear program to the U.N. Security Council as Bolton and his administration colleagues clearly want.

The comments from Bolton and Rice come within weeks of leading neo-conservative pundits and activists in Washington proclaiming that Iran's nuclear program had to be destroyed, even if waging war was the only way to do it.

Influential neo-conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer wrote July 23 column in The Washington Post: "The long awaited revolution (in Iran) is not happening. Which (makes) the question of pre-emptive attack all the more urgent. If nothing is done, a fanatical terrorist regime openly dedicated to the destruction of 'the Great Satan' will have both nuclear weapons and missiles to deliver them. All that stands between us and that is either revolution or pre-emptive attack."

Krauthammer's column was widely discussed in the Tehran press, further fueling the fears there that the United States may act in cahoots with Israel to launch a pre-emptive strike on the Iranian reactor. Iranians also remember that President George W. Bush included Iran with Iraq as fellow members of the "axis of evil" in his 2002 State of the Union speech. Just over a year after that, he unleashed the U.S. armed forces to topple Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

Iranians therefore fear that the goal of Bush and his Pentagon hawks is now exactly what Krauthammer advocated in his July 23 column: to use the new, "strong fortress" of pro-American Iraq as the launch point to destabilize and topple the Islamic Republic of Iran. Both the desired counter-revolution in Iran and a U.S.-delivered or U.S.-backed pre-emptive strike "are far more likely to succeed with 146,000 American troops and highly sophisticated aircraft standing by just a few miles away in Iraq," Krauthammer wrote.

In reality, however, Iraq is anything but a "strong fortress." The embattled U.S. troops there are hunkered down, on the defensive, an undermanned, over-stretched, over-worked exhausted force isolated in a nation that has almost universally rejected them and about which they were deceived and given no adequate preparation whatsoever.

Indeed, if a full-scale war broke out with Iran, the United States might even have to send in hundreds of thousands of more troops to relieve and rescue its current over-extended force in Iraq, or go nuclear, or implement both extreme options in order to prevent current U.S. forces there from being cut off and even possibly over-run.

Shamkhani Wednesday made clear that this possibility had already occurred to his own military planners in Tehran. "The U.S. military presence will not become an element of strength at our expense," he said. "The opposite is true because their forces would turn into a hostage."

Shamkhani also made very clear that his country would regard any pre-emptive strike against the Bushehr reactor as a casus belli: sufficient cause to unleash full-scale, unrestricted war against the United States. "We will consider any strike against our nuclear installations as an attack on Iran as a whole and we will retaliate with all our strength," he said.

Some political leaderships specialize in using tough talk that they never seriously mean to back up with equally ruthless actions. But the Iranians are not like that. They lost around a half-million dead to repel Saddam in the eight-year Iran-Iraq war from 1980 to 1988. So when Shamkhani threatens the prospect of a major war against the United States: Believe him.
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IranianLiberationForces



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 6:45 pm    Post subject: They already running a war against us(Israel) and the west Reply with quote

They support any muslim/non muslim terror groups who fights against the west, wheter if it's in Lebanon, Chechnya, Bosnia, Belfast or South America!!!!

America and Israel must fight back by arming an Iranian group that will be backed by the whole Iranian public, and that will fight the Iranian Revolution Forces in Iran!!!
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redemption



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FREEDOM! - Iranian people are willing to fight, however they must see and get sincere support from America - otherwise they will think (and rightly so) that they are not supported and the Mullahs (backed by EU, Russia and China) will continue to smother all dissent and opposition.
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eski



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PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2004 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Iran ever openly attacked America, life as the theocrats in Iran know it would cease to exist. No doubt they have operatives here in America that could deliver some devastating blows but they are not prepared, nor will they ever be, to wage a protracted war against the U.S. If this happened, not only would Iran fall but so would any country with terrorist ties. The U.S. could not afford to allow other countries to deliver similar blows and would be pre-emptive and prejuditial in future defense. Martial law would be imposed in America and you would not see all of these numb-skulls fighting for the rights of non-citizens from muslim countries as if they were citizens and protected by our constitution. We would at that point do what is nescessary to secure our survival and wage a war of the likes that the world has never seen. Whe we are not in that mode as I write this is because of liberalism. Their mentality is missing the survival gene or something. Even if they (the Iranians) were covert in this effort and we found out the results would be the same. I think that all muslims would be suspect until proven otherwise through their actions. There is no other way to wage a war against an enemy without a uniformed military. How do we know which are the enemy and which are not? It would be terrible and devastating but this is how I would see it taking place.
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stefania



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Mullahs also support the Murderer Putin..
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redemption



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

eski wrote:
If Iran ever openly attacked America, life as the theocrats in Iran know it would cease to exist. No doubt they have operatives here in America that could deliver some devastating blows but they are not prepared, nor will they ever be, to wage a protracted war against the U.S. If this happened, not only would Iran fall but so would any country with terrorist ties. The U.S. could not afford to allow other countries to deliver similar blows and would be pre-emptive and prejuditial in future defense. Martial law would be imposed in America and you would not see all of these numb-skulls fighting for the rights of non-citizens from muslim countries as if they were citizens and protected by our constitution. We would at that point do what is nescessary to secure our survival and wage a war of the likes that the world has never seen. Whe we are not in that mode as I write this is because of liberalism. Their mentality is missing the survival gene or something. Even if they (the Iranians) were covert in this effort and we found out the results would be the same. I think that all muslims would be suspect until proven otherwise through their actions. There is no other way to wage a war against an enemy without a uniformed military. How do we know which are the enemy and which are not? It would be terrible and devastating but this is how I would see it taking place.


I think what we're seeing though as the Mullahs time is fast approaching and the rest of the world senses it and has to do something before the US acts (support democracy movement) is that the Mullahs and rest of the World are spreading this giant RUMOR of attack, attack, attack.

We can read this important article: http://www.activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3759
And clearly see that launching attack would be falling into their trap. We must not do anything that will turn the Iranian people agfainst us, because it would likely result in longer reign of these fucking islamofascists.

I think it is important for Israel to keep rhetoric down and hand all duty to the United States. We must pressure Europeans and let them know if they **** around too much and it results in Mullahs launching weapons - EUROPEAN LEADERS who did this will be held accountable. Hopefully we have goo dcontacts within Iranian government and military who will coup and not launch any weapons.

If missiles are launched I hope that US counter missiles and Israeli ARROW can take out all missiles.

But retaliation must be very very very careful - and you don't want to nuke iran and don't necessarily attack. Best thing is to provoke major demonstrations into the street and to hlep Iranian people overturn regime!!!!
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eski



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Scare the **** out of the population by making them think and attack is going to happen if they don't stop the bullshit. Maybe that would get things rolling over there. But if we adopt that sort of posture we have to be ready to follow through with it as a last resort. To posture and threaten and then back down only emboldens those ass-wipes. The show of weakness by the Clinton years is an all too clear example of what happens when you do this. Remember Somolia? Afghanistan? Sudan? Token attacks only piss people off. Now that we have the worlds attention with our actions in Iraq, they know that our present leadership actually does what is says and doesn't waver in the face of opposition. This is the type of leadership that is nescessary to overcome these islamofacist (a nice little Michael Savage term) and undermine any support that they have from the populace. Bush started to waver in Falluja and Najaf and look what it got us, a kick in the balls from that al Sadr clown. You can not negotiate with these people. All that does is give them time to regroup and stick it to ya when they are re-charged. Finally we went in and kicked the **** out of them and encircled the old city of Najaf, cutting off their supply system. As they died and ran out of supplies, they wavered and collapsed. The news would have you think that al Sistani rode in and saved the day but that is not the case at all. This was nothing more than a face-saving measure for the islamists. A mistake if you were to ask me but in the end they were routed. Now we need to support the new Iraqi government and give them the power to overcome the islamists that want some sort of Theocracy to rise out of the ashes. If we allow that to happen it will turn into another Iran and we're back to square one in a few years. All of the efforts will have been in vain. This is the stance that is nescessary to kick start the Iranians into action. I read an arcticle about how there was an uprising in some small, port city in Iran rescently. Once this starts happening on a grand scale, it's only a matter of time before the hard-liners take a fall. If Iran and Iraq were to establish secular democracies in the region, it would only be a matter of time before the whole region moved in that direction. Sure, there would still be the brain-washed to perpetrate homoside bombings but they would fade out in time. One of the main things that needs to happen is shutting down those hatefull madrassas that teach little kids how to hate and kill the "Infidels". That is just plain sick. That is where the Saudi's need to take responsibility. They need to reign in those ass-backwards, wahabbi fundamentalists. They are the root cause of the brand of Islam that wants to convert the world into their version of a society from the dark ages. Join the free world and start contributing something to civilization other than oil! The middle east hasn't contributed anything to civilization worthwhile since the one and the zero came into fashion. ( aside from oil ) And that is a damn shame considering the extremely intelligent minds that come from that region. Just think of where that region would be today if they had been able to capitalize on the wealth of intelligence that eminate from the middle east. As it stands, they use their best minds to find ways to bring us back to the 7th century and that is a terrible waste. The future is bright for them if they make the right decisions on where they want to be.
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redemption



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eski - you make some good points.. Although I would say that the Persian Race, Civilization and Culture has contributed much to the world as we currently know it - perhaps you mean since the Islamists took over.

We can obviously all agree that the only way to take out this regime is by the Iranian people overthrowing it, that is the only option. The question is, how do we get to that point.

The concept that you stated of perhaps threatening military and scaring Iranian people to act make a little sense, but i don't think it's the wisest choice. Military should always be held off until last last last resort, and plus, there are many other effective and well-strategized ways to get the result that freedom-loving peoples are looking for.

First of all - we need to CALL OUT THE fucking European Governments and tell them straight and clear that the days of supporting dictatorships like the Mullahs are over. This cannot continue, and you're either with us or agianst us.

Next - encourage iranian people to rise up by demanindg the Mullahs hold free and fair referendum and that if there is any wise idea by the Rafsanjani or Khamenei to arrest many, kill or attack their own country and blame it on the West, then there will be no mercy by the Iranian people - and the West will not provide any safe way of turning themselves in.

These psychos won't go easy - but we should support internal opposition and support some type of military coup with the population. A united Iranian front against the Islamist Mullahs. Hopefully, on Thursday night, BUSH WILL TARGET THESE FUCKHEADS!
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eski



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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2004 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are precisely right Redemption. I was referring to the history of the Middle East since the introduction of Fundamentalist Islam. I have read the Quran on several occasions and when taken literally it actually restricts forward thinking people. I don't have a copy handy so I can't quote it but in many ways, the people that take Islam to the level of being the final word in all situations have effectively hobbled themselves from making advances in the civilized world. Like I wrote earlier, this is a very sad occurance with all of the brilliant minds that the region has to offer. Not only are the people of the Middle East missing out on some pretty wonderful opportunities but the rest of the world is missing out as well. Who know where the next big thing will come from? Who knows where the final cure for cancer will come from. Who know where the next great leaders will come from? With the restrictions that Fundamentalist Islam place on people, especially women, many great things will never happen that may be hiding in the mind of someone that is not allowd to think for him or her self. Sorry about not making this clear on my last posting and I hope this clears up my thinking on this matter. You are also correct in saying that the final solution for Iran will need to come from the people of Iran. I was only saying that perhaps military pressure from the U.S. would help the people of Iran rise up if for no other reason that to keep us the hell out of there. It is a last resort to take it to that level as I stated. I will have to be more clear on my meaning in future postings. I will tag an arcticle onto the end of this posting that shows what I mean about being firm an not wavering and it's possible consequences. I hope it sheds some light on what I was trying to say there.



Wednesday, Sep. 1, 2004 11:51 a.m. EDT

Soldier in Iraq Tells Convention Protesters

Capt. Ron Hayes in Iraq sent us his response to protesters at the GOP convention who want to "Bring our Boys Home!"


It has been interesting to follow the news reports from the Republican National Convention, to include the protests in New York by 10s of thousands of people.

I am all for standing up for what you believe, which should include voicing your opinions against wars and against presidents, if that is your calling.

But, it really makes me mad when I see people with signs that say things like, "Bring our Boys Home!" There have been several pictures published of protesters carrying flag-draped coffins, and carrying these types of signs.

I have news for you.

The soldiers in Iraq, and Afghanistan do not want your sentiment, or your voice that would have the lives of those already lost dishonored by not finishing the job.

Regardless of how you feel about why we went to war, America made a commitment. It's time we see the job through to fruition. Lack of resolve by many U.S. citizens is the main reason for a lack of trust on the part of those being liberated.

Iraqi citizens are waiting for our resolve to crumble, and see us depart before adequate Iraqi security is established. Al Qaida does not have to beat America in a fight in order to win, they just have to get us to go home.

Ask yourself, what would happen to Iraq, if America were to take your misguided advice and went home before finishing the job?

So, put down your coffin ... put down your sign, and have some American resolve to finish the job we started. We have brought the fight to those who wish to bring the fight to American soil, and we are making great progress.

Security is not yet established, and we all hope to come home when a free, safe, and productive Iraq has been established.

I sincerely thank all of you who have supported the soldiers and have recognized that Americans are not the only people on this planet that are entitled to a safe place to live, a good school for boys and girls, or even a clean water supply.

The mainstream people of Iraq truly do appreciate America, and hope we stick around until the job is finished. Their lives depend on it! Thank you for all of your continued support!

Captain Ron Hayes
2nd BN 147th FA
South Dakota Army National Guard
Cedar II, Iraq
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It IS a MENTAL DISORDER! (Michael Savage)
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