[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great Forum Index [FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great
Views expressed here are not necessarily the views & opinions of ActivistChat.com. Comments are unmoderated. Abusive remarks may be deleted. ActivistChat.com retains the rights to all content/IP info in in this forum and may re-post content elsewhere.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Will Iraq End Up a Theocracy Like Iran? Yup, its good for $$

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    [FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great Forum Index -> General Discussion & Announcements
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1829

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:28 pm    Post subject: Will Iraq End Up a Theocracy Like Iran? Yup, its good for $$ Reply with quote

Secular Leaders Worry That, Torn by Turmoil, Iraqis Will Elect an Islamic Theocracy
From The New York Times

December 07, 2003
The New York Times
Joel Brinkly

BAGHDAD -- For many Iraqi officials, an unspoken fear hovers like a wraith in the background of every debate over the popular elections that are supposed to take place here in June.

It is that the Iraqi people — roiled by the fall of a brutal dictatorship, followed immediately by subjugation to a sometimes bumbling occupation force — will elect a theocratic Islamic government.

When Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the most influential Shiite cleric in Iraq, spoke out a week ago, calling for full national elections instead of the caucus-style balloting envisioned in the American plan for self-rule, most secular politicians concluded that he hoped the voters would elect a theocracy. At least 60 percent of the nation is Shiite, after all.

"A lot of people are mostly afraid that the Islamists want to have direct elections because they believe clergymen will be the new government in Iraq," said Sheik Ghazi Ajil al-Yawar, an independent member of the Iraqi Governing Council.

The Shiite clergy deny that. They profess no interest in governing the country — at least for now.

"We don't want at this point to have an Islamic government," said Abdul Aziz al-Hakim, a senior Islamic clergyman who is also on the Governing Council and is close to Ayatollah Sistani. "We don't want a Shia government. We want a broad-based, democratic government."

Bush administration officials have also said that, seeing that Iraq's Shiites are not under the thumb of Iran's, their fears of a Shiite-dominated government have diminished.

But a variety of Iraqis worry nonetheless. They say it may not matter what Mr. Hakim says he wants. In Iraq's present chaotic state, they fear the people may vote for the rigorous order that an Iranian-style Shiite theocracy imposes. For that reason, almost everyone except the religious leaders is determined to delay a full national election for a year or longer.

"The whole process is boiling," said Hamid Majeed Mousa, leader of the Iraqi Communist Party. "In these abnormal conditions, it is very hard to have balanced voting. We don't have the right conditions for elections, and that is why we could get one of these kinds of surprises."

The American plan calls for Iraq to choose a so-called transitional assembly of 250 people nationwide next spring. The national Governing Council, as well as provincial and local governing councils, would select the assembly's members. The Americans said they arranged the selection this way because it would be impossible to organize a full national election by next spring.

American officials say they will support any government as long as it respects democratic principles.

Still, hardly anyone here doubts that the Americans had an unspoken motive for organizing the elections the way they did. By relying solely on official bodies, the selection process is likely to be insulated from the popular passions that might overcome full national elections.

The Shiite religious leaders say they believe the nation needs a broad-based, inclusive government during this volatile period.

"All the parties have anxieties now," Mr. Hakim said. "That is why everyone should participate in this period." In the future, he added, "we will have a Parliament and a press so that people will be able to monitor what the government does."

At the same time, however, Mr. Hakim also demands certain rights for religion, no matter what kind of government Iraq chooses.

"Of course we will not support any assault or aggression against Islam," he said. No matter what form of government the people may choose, Mr. Hakim and Ayatollah Sistani insist that no law the government enacts may conflict with Islamic doctrine.

The actual population numbers suggest that electing a Shiite theocracy should be impossible. About 40 percent of the nation's population is Sunni, Kurd or some other minority, and is unlikely ever to vote for a Shiite religious leader. The remaining 60 percent is Shiite. But even religious leaders acknowledge that a great portion of those people are secular and would not vote to elect a theocratic government.

"About 30 to 35 percent" of the Shiites are secular, said Abdul Latif al-Mayah, a political scientist and the chairman of the Arab Homeland Studies Center at Al Mustansiriya University in Baghdad. "But if the conditions in Iraq are still as they are now, I think even the educated, secular people will vote for a fundamentalist government."

One quandary behind all this is the realization that, even now, more than seven months after the fall of Baghdad, no figure has emerged who comes anywhere near being regarded as a popular leader for all of Iraq. In this leadership vacuum, when Iraqis discuss what they are looking for in their leader, they sound very much like a teenager describing an ideal date for the prom.

"He should have a shining history," Mr. Mousa said. "He should be accepted socially, honest, clean, educated, smart, intellectual."

Mowaffak al-Rubaie, another member of the Governing Council, said, "It should be someone who is highly educated, knows the outside world and knows the language of human rights."

No one who seems to fit those descriptions has come forward yet, another reason that most Iraqi politicians want to delay a national vote for a leader by a year or two.

"That will give time for people to come forward," Mr. Mousa said.

"We are moving to a new phase of our lives," Sheik Yawar said, "but we don't know what it is."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1829

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:30 pm    Post subject: Islam is Good for O.I.L. = Oppression, Ignorance and Lies! Reply with quote

Will Iraq endup a theocracy? Probably its good for $$$


I$lam i$ Good For Corporate Greed and the OIL Bu$ine$$!


The US and Ayatollah Hakim are calling it democracy. The way the US & France hailed Khomeini as a saint and called it democracy in Iran 25 years ago!

But in Iraq, as in Afghanistan, it will probably be called a democracy and endup as a quasi theocracy with the judiciary using Sharia law, and elected officials kissing Mullah a$$ for fear of religious persecution. Another puppet government of the Mullah mafia and the we$t, and the democracy part is: the Mullah$ will run thing$ from outside of the government, as a bunch of guy$ in $uits take order$ from the Mullah$ and we$tern companie$.


Look at how Oil prices have remained at record low prices for the last 25 years! Nothing can deliver Profit$ to the we$t better than another I$lamic theocracy in Iraq. I$lam will control the masses, prevent them from questioning the looting, and keep everyone down as their duty! And anyone questioning the system, can easily endup as enemy of God and I$lam. Meanwhile, crowds of foaming at the mouth angry I$lami$t$ will continue to provide the Mullah show with "Death to Amercia" chants, legitimising the new greedy/thieving theocracy as anti-US, anti-Israel, Anti-Imperialist and therefore Good. Yeah Right Very Happy
Duh ... The world's most anti-US, anti-Israel, anti-Imperialism regimes, Iran/Iraq have delivered the cheapest oil prices of the last 25 years ... gee I wonder why! :Wink:

Ayatollah Hakim may speak of a secular government, but you have to read between the lines to see what he is saying. Hakim has said that the constitution cannot contain anything that is against Islam, that means it can't have equality for women and religious minorities, it can't have freedom of religion, it can't have freedom of speech, and it will support cruel and unusual punishments and every other horror imaginable. All he's offering is to keep the Mullah$ behind the $cene$ for the benefit of western Bu$ine$$e$, but I$lam will still deliver what it has for big business!

The US and Hakim are calling it democracy, but just like in Afghanistan, it will endup as the Islamic Republic of Iraq, and the Mullah$ will run the bought, ooops I mean elected, officials from outside the government on behalf of foreign oil companies. And without a nationalisitic monarchy, I'm afraid Iran is looking at the same Islamic system as in Afghanistan and Iraq, because I$lamic systems are anti-nationalistic and therefore good for Big Business!

I$lamic Republics also guarantee that power resides with the few, the Mullahs (even if they are not in government), who can exert pressure on behalf of big business anytime needed, and elected officials will continue to do the bidding of the west and the Mullah$ for fear of electoral repercussions. Also elected presidents simply do not have the symbolic power of standing up to the clergy, which is why many European countries retained their monarchies so that they could have progress, secularity and democracy! This is also why the world's leading social democracies today are Constitutional Monarchies, because it balances power, and some of the most inequitable societies are so called demcoratic Republics. Look at the divisions between the haves and have nots in the US!

Meanwhile the I$lamic part of these so called democracies, will continue to fool everyone into thinking the regime is anti-western, and like every other anti-western regime it will continue to serve up the profits to the west while the masses starve. And the masses don't question why they are starving, because they believe its their religious duty, and their sacrifice is for fighting the evil west. What a pathetic charade! Welcome to the Middle East's last Golden era of oil production in the Twenty First Century! And when the oil is all gone, just like Africa after the mining heydays it will collapse into a vicious cycle of civil war, famine, plague and badbakhti.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
CryFreedomDMB



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2003 10:40 am    Post subject: s Reply with quote

The way things are going - it may very well end up a theocracy.. if our policy remains out of whack then the whole world may end up like an Islamic THEOCRACY!!!!
_________________
Cry freedom cry
From a crowd '0,000 wide
Hope laid upon hope
That this crowd will not subside
Let this flag burn to dust
And a new a fair design be raised
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    [FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great Forum Index -> General Discussion & Announcements All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group