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[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great
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azeriwarrior
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 9
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 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 5:39 am Post subject: Freedom to southern Azerbaijan!!! |
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Hi all,
I guess all of the people here want the mullahs to go and want a "secular Iran" as is the case in Turkey. I am an Azeri Turk from southern Azerbaijan, what the Iranin regime call northern Iran. Well, in that secular Iran, we do not want to be part of it. We are a turkic people with different history, culture. The only thing which binds us to Iran is the Shia Islam. ANd, when that bond is no more there which will be the case in the future, I wnat to live in Azerbaijan or Turkey which is my homeland...
We Turks will supporty YOU until the regime change and when the regime changes we will split up. You Persians will go on your way, we Turks will fo on our way...
 [/code] |
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Dîrî
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Okey - so you are making FEDERAL CLAIMS... NOT independence -right? We can live with FEDERAL - but we won't give you land which wasn't your to begin with - Turks are MONGOL PEOPLE... You are a branch of the URAL-ALTAI language group and are as FAR from INDO-ARIANS as possible - you have more in common with the native Indians than you have with Iranians...
So WHICH PART OF IRAN ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?? WHICH ARE THE PROVINCES YOU TALK ABOUT? 
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MARG BER IRI!!! |
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azeriwarrior
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Diri
I have put a map above. I guess, you have not seen it.
Yes, you are right we are a central-asian people with no links to persians except our religion. In fact, Azeri Turks used to be Sunni Muslim until the 17 th centure but Persians forcefully converted us to Shia Islam by massacres. Today although we make up about 30 percent of the Iranian population, we have far less right than Armenians.
Federalism is NOT a solution. We want independence from IRAN. I want to be a pert of secular AZerbaijan or Turkey not a part of SECULAR IRAN! [color=red]Freedom to Southern Azerbaijan!![/color] |
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Dîrî
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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Fair enough - I read that the first time... I am just ASKING - which Provinces are you talking about when you say SouthernAzerbaijan? Do you mean the Province called "East Azerbaijan" ? Because as you should be aware of MOST of so-called "WEST Azerbaijan" is inhabited by Kurds and has been Kurdish ancestral lands BEFORE Turks came to Kurdistan- and Iran...
So I ask again - which are the Provinces you are calling "Southern Azerbaijan" ?
AND YOU IRANIANS - WHY DON'T YOU SAY ANYTHING??? DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH WHAT AZERIWARRIOR IS SAYING??
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azeriwarrior
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Dîrî wrote: | Fair enough - I read that the first time... I am just ASKING - which Provinces are you talking about when you say SouthernAzerbaijan? Do you mean the Province called "East Azerbaijan" ? Because as you should be aware of MOST of so-called "WEST Azerbaijan" is inhabited by Kurds and has been Kurdish ancestral lands BEFORE Turks came to Kurdistan- and Iran...
So I ask again - which are the Provinces you are calling "Southern Azerbaijan" ?
AND YOU IRANIANS - WHY DON'T YOU SAY ANYTHING??? DO YOU AGREE OR DISAGREE WITH WHAT AZERIWARRIOR IS SAYING?? |
Diri,
Don't call stupid Persians for help. They do not know anything except praising US while swearing to Iran. God **** THEM!
Also, a fair refrandum shows everything. |
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Dîrî
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:39 am Post subject: |
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A fair refferendum?
Do you speak Turkish? There is a saying in Turkish that if a person forgets his/her roots this person is a false person. So I am glad that not only Kurds remember their roots - Azeri nation also - SOME of you remember your roots - You are the first Azeri I have met who wants to say bye bye to Iran
Do you want to be a part of Turkey??? You don't speak the same language - Azerî and Turkish are very close, but still they are two different languages...
From what I see in your map- this is my comment: Take what ever you want - but don't even think about taking Kurdistan with you - Turkey has already EATEN up much of Kurdistan... 1/2 of it actually - so no way...
A refferendum won't show you history - and that is what is important - there are Kurds living in all parts of "West Azerbaijan" but there are Azerî there too - they live in the cities - Like the Kurdish cities Urmiye - Khoy - Salmas - Maku... and there is ONE Kurdish city in East Azerbaijan - Miandoab... I am from Urmiye and not even a refferendum that show Azeri majority (But I am aware that there is no such thing in "West Azerbaijan") we wouldn't accept the annexation of Kurdistan...
Sorry my friend... I don't mind you wanting independence - unlike all the other people here...
YOU ARE WRONG - I DIDN'T SHOUT FOR HELP - I SHOUTED FOR THEIR OPPINION! AND WHAT ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF???
Take East Azerbaijan and Ardabil but you can forget Kurdistan - ALL the land on the WEST side of Urmiye LAKE is KURDISTAN - and the ISLANDS IN THE LAKE ARE ALSO KURDISTAN - if you have had a look at your own map you will see that the islands belong to the province called "West Azerbaijan"...
Anyway - I am not a Persian - so if people want to deffend the "Iranian" unity they can go ahead... But I for one have such acritical view that I wish not to oppress the oppressed and I wish not to demand that people give up their nationality for the sake of "unity"... A unity strongly based on Persian interests...
But hey - Kurds would be content with a FEDERAL IRAN... BUT we must change the name... it MUST be and should be "ARIA"!
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Dîrî
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Here is a map of KURDISTAN =
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azeriwarrior
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Do you want to be a part of Turkey??? You don't speak the same language - Azerî and Turkish are very close, but still they are two different languages...
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As far as I know, Kurds do not have a common language too. Most of the Kurds I have met when I was in a trip to Turkey communicate Turkish between each other, but that does not keep them being a part of the same nation. Besides, there is Turkish TV station broadcasting to all Iran and other parts of the world where Turks live. And, I can say that it does not take more than 1 year to adopt to Turkish which is spoken in Turkey. In fact, the Turkish which is spoken by the officials have some differences with the spoken Turkish. The "official Turkish" is also called Armenian Turkish because it has been invented by an Armenian.
| Quote: | From what I see in your map- this is my comment: Take what ever you want - but don't even think about taking Kurdistan with you - Turkey has already EATEN up much of Kurdistan... 1/2 of it actually - so no way...
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I have no problem with Kurds. There are many Kurds living in Azerbaijan and we have no problems with them. The only problem is they are too conservative and we are more secular. And, that causes problem although rarely. Besides, you can take all the oil-rich regions. I do not give a **** abou oil. In fact, I would be to live ina oil-free country. Because, in that case we would have to develop our industry, produce and edcucate our people!
| Quote: | | But hey - Kurds would be content with a FEDERAL IRAN... BUT we must change the name... it MUST be and should be "ARIA"! |
Iran is already a federal country! |
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Dîrî
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Kurdish not a homogenous language - no - and I won't deny it - but that is not strange at all - Kurds have in the last 100 years been denied a country of their own... If they had a country 100 years ago - they would all have spoken the same dialect today... So you can't use that agianst Kurds - because it is Turkey's fault too 
And the reason why most Kurds speak Turkish when they are in Turkey can be reasoned in many ways a) They wanted you and others to understand what they were saying b) They never had the chance to learn their own language because in practice Kurdish is a forbidden language c) They may not have dared to speak Kurdish because they were afraid a Turk would hang them if they did d) They may have had two different dialects -which would make it hard for them to fully understand EVERYsingle word...
Kurds have no problem with any people either - we are a peace loving people - and we have been very quite about the occupation of Kurdistan. The reason why Kurds are more conservative than Turks and Azerî is that we don't want to be the same as other people - we make it a point that we are a different people and therefor try to make distinctions between us - that is because we have been treated badly by Turkey and Azerbaijan - also Turkmenistan...
And in other countries that have occupied Kurdistan - like Iran, Syria and Iraq - we are the opposite of the majority - In Iran we are Sunni while the rest is shia, and we are secular - in Iraq the majority is shia and ARAB fundamentalist - we are secular and Sunni... in Syria - They are Shia, Alevi and fundamentalist - we are secular Sunni - and when I say Sunni i don't mean just Sunni - Kurds have their own Islamic school... "Shafe'i"...
So we are totally different from all the other people - we are not Turk, Arab or Persian, we are not Shia and we do not speak their languages... We have a language of our own which predates most the languages in the Middle East - Armenia and Israel being the only cilizations that are as ancient as the Kurds...
There are many Kurds in Azerbaijan - but do you know why they are there? They were forced to flee from Kurdistan in Turkey. And they have been prosecuted in all the countries they live in so... Naturally they will run away...
ARIA is not federal according to "peoples" it has been made into "districts" and that is not the type of federal system I am talking about...
Can I ask you something - you say that you want independence - do you support all other people who want independence too? Kurdistan - as you saw in the map covers Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq... Why aren't all Turks like you? Why don't they agree that self-determination is a basic human right? The UN agrees that it is - but the UN is mostly a US organization... So it isn't un-biased...
Kurdistan may have a lot of oil - but that isn't there reason why we want our land - We want our land because several MILLION Kurds have died for Kurdistan even before there was such a thing called oil... We don't need the oil - we would gladly spilt the oil with the occuping countries if we were given independence... But hey - one step at a time.. If South Azerbaijan becomes independent or annexed into Azerbaijan - then East Kurdistan aslo becomes independent So we are in the same baot my brother
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azeriwarrior
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | b) They never had the chance to learn their own language because in practice Kurdish is a forbidden language c) They may not have dared to speak Kurdish because they were afraid a Turk would hang them if they did d) They may have had two different dialects -which would make it hard for them to fully understand EVERYsingle word...
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Well, my point was that although they are from the same ethnicity they do not have a common language. I do not know if that is the case in other parts of the Kurdistan but this was what I have witnessed in Turkey.
| Quote: | So we are totally different from all the other people - we are not Turk, Arab or Persian, we are not Shia and we do not speak their languages... We have a language of our own which predates most the languages in the Middle East - Armenia and Israel being the only cilizations that are as ancient as the Kurds...
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I guess Kurds are much more ancient than Israel and Armenians. Because until the advant of Christianity there is no word "Armen". Even their origins are looked after in Bible. However, Kurds and Turks have a much ancient history.
| Quote: | | Can I ask you something - you say that you want independence - do you support all other people who want independence too? Kurdistan - as you saw in the map covers Turkey, Iran, Syria and Iraq... |
I support the independence of all people if they have a sizable population and more importantly CONSENT OF PEOPLE! If these conditions are provided for Kurds, I fully support their independence.
| Quote: | Why aren't all Turks like you? Why don't they agree that self-determination is a basic human right? The UN agrees that it is - but the UN is mostly a US organization... So it isn't un-biased...
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I can not speak for all Turks. But, I guess the reason is beacuse of their model and history. Turkey takes France as a model which a ultra-nationalist society which bases everything on being French. When the French Republic first declared after the revolutiion about 20 percent of the population was erhnic Germans. However, due to strict secular and nationalist policies today no trace of them left. I guess Turkey wants to do the same things to Kurds in Turkey. ANd, I guess they got quiete successful in assimilating these people.
| Quote: | If South Azerbaijan becomes independent or annexed into Azerbaijan - then East Kurdistan aslo becomes independent So we are in the same baot my brother
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YES! I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU!!! |
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Martin
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
Posts: 119
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Oh, so this forum has become a propaganda tool in hands of idiot separatists?!! |
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Dîrî
Joined: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 79
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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First of all - Azerîwarrior - just ignore him... He is American... One that loves Iran... (There is a first for everything)
But back to your comment--->
| Quote: | | Well, my point was that although they are from the same ethnicity they do not have a common language. I do not know if that is the case in other parts of Kurdistan but this was what I have witnessed in Turkey. |
Like I said - maybe they didn't speak Kurdish because they would be jailed or something worse... And Kurds can easily understand eachother - there is only 4 million speaking the Gorani/Dimili dialects and the rest understand eachother perfectly... And Kurds in Turkey only speak Kurmancî - so it was probably because they were afraid to speak Kurdish in Turkey... But if you have visited Turkish Kurdistan you will see that people speak Kurdish with eachother...
| Quote: | | I guess Kurds are much more ancient than Israel and Armenians. Because until the advant of Christianity there is no word "Armen". Even their origins are looked after in Bible. However, Kurds and Turks have a much ancient history. |
There isn't??? hmmm... I have to look into that... But that is very interesting - Yes - Kurds are one of the of the oldest civilizatin in the Middle East and Turks are one of the oldest civilizations from East Asia... They are (as you know) from central Asian stepps - They were part of the first peoples to tame wilde horses...
| Quote: | | I support the independence of all people if they have a sizable population and more importantly CONSENT OF PEOPLE! If these conditions are provided for Kurds, I fully support their independence |
Good - I am glad you respect that... And there are 40 million Kurds worldwide - more than 30 live in and around Kurdistan... There is one million in Former Soviet lands and a diaspora of one million in Europe and America... So Kurds make up the third largest nation in the Middle East after the Arab and Turks... The rumor of Iran being 50 % Persian is very wrong---> There are 50% Azerî in Iran and 15 % Kurds and only 10-15% Persians - while the rest are Balouch, Sistani, Bakhtarani, Lurs etc.
So as far as the Kurdish nation goes they have struggled for 100 years in a united voice to be given their own country - and this will happen... The Middle East borders are not ethnical borders... THAT IS what they should be... All the problems in the Middle East can be solved if ALL the peoples are given self-determination and independence... Just ask any people of the M.E ...
| Quote: | | I can not speak for all Turks. But, I guess the reason is beacuse of their model and history. Turkey takes France as a model which a ultra-nationalist society which bases everything on being French. When the French Republic first declared after the revolutiion about 20 percent of the population was erhnic Germans. However, due to strict secular and nationalist policies today no trace of them left. I guess Turkey wants to do the same things to Kurds in Turkey. ANd, I guess they got quiete successful in assimilating these people. |
No you can't... sadly... Did you know that atatürk had made a deal with Kurds that they would have their independence if they fought the colonial powers UK and France with the Turks... We fought but we were tricked... We never got our own country - and atatürk made Kurdish language, culture, religion (Yezidi), music, dances, clothes etc forbidden... HOWEVER - you have appereantly not been in Kurdistan and see how Kurds live - they are not assimilated at all... Turkey has become a Turkish "nation" with Kurdish culture... They have taken music, dances and culture from the Kurds and call it Turkish... That is very sad - and on top of this they don't want to say the word "Kurdistan" - and neither should you in Turkey - they would jail you... But still Kurdish culture and language has survived - yes MANY Kurds have become assimilated - especially in Istanbul, Ankara, Izmir, Antalya etc--- But this is just a minority... And they still call themselves Kurds...
| Quote: | | YES! I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU!!! |
Well... Have you had a look at my "first" posts here? I was making all these Persians angry by saying I wanted independence for Kurdistan... They were gonna bite of my head - but then I said - okey - lets work for federalism based on ethnic lines instead of provinces... And then they all ignored me as if I wasn't here... SO sad - but now you are here - we must stand together... these people think that they can dominate us with their language and non-existent culture...
Azerî and Kurds have a stake in Iran - we must make sure we build something solide and bearable... When Iran falls we will stand together in demanding independence
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patriot
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Well well
I suggest our Azari friend to have a dialog with Mr Shayane Kazemi and My Azari friends too .....
And about you Diri: Well don t worry! Iran is the land of Aryans , mixed up by different etnic groups, one to another, side by side, as a result it is absolutly logic when you talk about Kurdish Residents who are living in North Iran or Western Iran....or wherever part of Iran!
Because we are one nation and what really important is, trying to protect each other, like brothers and sisters of one family!
And remember Turkish rulers came to iran 800 years ago , but what you talk about it as Azarbayjan, actually this is a persian word and that means the land of fire :refered to the time when iranians used to be zoarostrians in heart and spirite!
And even there is a village in north of Iran, where it s residents still talking in Pahlavi language, what an amazing part of our homeland!
And it is better to know that evenwell the land that you know as Turkey doesn t belong to Turkish but to Iranians acoording to some historical facts, and that s why 70 percent of residents in Turkey are Kurdish !
and not only Tukey one day belonged to Iran but also Ghzaghestan, Ghafghaz, Turkemanestan,Ozbakestan, tajikestan,Afghanestan,gherghizestan..........and so on
Payandeh Iran
http://groups.yahoo.Com/group/shahineazadi
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azeriactivist
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I suggest our Azari friend to have a dialog with Mr Shayane Kazemi and My Azari friends |
Same old rhetoric. Well, I do not know how many Azeris you know but I am sure that they are not stereotype of Azeri nation.
| Quote: | | Because we are one nation and what really important is, trying to protect each other, like brothers and sisters of one family! |
We are not part of Persian or Iranian nation. We are Azeri Turks. We are complately different people, the only thing we have common with Persians is our religion. And, when Mullahists collapse, this bond will fade away and there will be NOTHING common with us.
| Quote: | And it is better to know that evenwell the land that you know as Turkey doesn t belong to Turkish but to Iranians acoording to some historical facts, and that s why 70 percent of residents in Turkey are Kurdish !
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What a silly argument. Ottomans owned all Middle East just 100 years(not 3000 years ago )ago, but that does not give Turks to own all Middle East. |
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azeriactivist
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | So as far as the Kurdish nation goes they have struggled for 100 years in a united voice to be given their own country - and this will happen... The Middle East borders are not ethnical borders... THAT IS what they should be... All the problems in the Middle East can be solved if ALL the peoples are given self-determination and independence... Just ask any people of the M.E ...
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COMPLATELY AGREED! That is why ME is so unstable. All the borders are drawn by French and Britih imperialists after the WW2. All of the countries in ME are thus fictioanal and thus not legitamate.
Maybe Turkey can be an exceptional. Because Turkey is found by Turks and Kurds who fought againist imperialist armies! |
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