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The Christmas Tree's Origins in Iranian Culture
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Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1829

PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also Stephania Caspar, Balthasar and Melchior. are not Arab names!

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The Bible does not name the three wise men, however, as with art, stories from Christian tradition are endowed with meaning. Melchior, Balthasar and Caspar have come to represent the three ages of man and each believes they bear the perfect gift. Melchior, the old man brings myrrh. Middle-aged Balthasar brings frankincense. Youthful Caspar brings gold.




Persian Magi figures:
http://www.veltd.net/valmin/2001releases/9617.htm

At the Bethlehem Chruch the Magi are dressed in Persian Garb!
http://www.farsinet.com/wisemen/nativity.html

Church of Nativity in Bethlehem
Mosaic of a Magi dressed in Persian Garb saves the Church in 614

http://www.farsinet.com/wisemen/nativity1.html

The Magi and the Infant Jesus
by Fr Themistocles Adamopoulos (Monk)

In the nativity account according to the Gospel of Matthew we read that when Jesus was born an astronomical event occured - the appearance of a unique star in the east! As a consequence, Magi arrived in Herodian Jerusalem, from the East, inquiring about a "new-born king" for whom they had come to offer worship, follow the star to Bethlehem and offer expensive gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh to the infant Jesus:

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem saying ...
"Where is he was has been born king of the Jews? For we have seen his star in the East, and have come to worship him" ( Matthew 2:1-2).
" . . and lo, the star, which they had seen in the East went before them, till it came to rest over the place where the child was" (Matthew 2:9).


Who were the Magi?
http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/Magi.html
The Matthean Gospel is alone among the other three Gospels in its reference to the Magi. Who, then, were these "Magi" who followed the eastern star all the way to Jerusalem? Are they simply a literary or poetic creation by St. Matthew in order to add colour to the nativity account or did Magi actually exist in the ancient world? In fact, "Magi" were real historical figures in Babylonian antiquity. Their activities, functions and learning are well documented by ancient historiographers.
Herodotus Description of the Magi

Herodotus, who lived in the fifth-century before Christ, the celebrated ancient Greek father of "history-writing" (historiography), and the chronicler of the Greco-Persian wars, provides us with some very valuable historical information concerning that ancient class of people known as the Magi. Thus it is clear that by the time of the birth of Christ, Magi were an already well-established and ancient caste of people. He explains that Magi (Old Persian "Magu")*, originated from Medes (today's northern Iran), and were an elite class or caste of Medes within the Persian empire. After an unsuccessful attempt to gain political control of the empire, the Medes turned from politics to piety, becoming the teachers and illuminators of the Persians, specialising in the interpretation of dreams. Herodotus also informs us that Magi also assumed priestly functions with Persian society. This means that Magi would have been Zoroastrian priests (at that time Zoroastrianism was the dominant religion of Persia). Indeed without them no official sacrifice could be offered in Persia.
Philo of Alexandria's Description of the Magi

Additionally, the Persian Magi were esteemed as honourable and virtuous sages. Skilled in philosophy, medicine and natural science, they became the scholars of Persian society. Indeed Philo of Alexandria commends the Magi for their research of nature:

"And in the land of the barbarians ... there are very numerous companies of virtuous and honourable men celebrated. Among the Persians there exists a group, the Magi, who investigating the works of nature for the purpose of becoming acquainted with the truth. . . initiate others in the divine virtues, by very clear explanations" (Philo, Every Good Man is Free, 74. See also, On Special Laws 100).

The Magi as Astrologers

Nevertheless astrology was their special expertise. Consequently they believed, like most people in antiquity, that Heaven communicated its desires and intentions through signs, comets, stars and astronomical phenomena. Indeed, a person's destiny was considered determined by the stars under which one was born.
The Matthean Magi

Consequently, there is no need to imagine that the Matthean account of these Magi following a star to Bethlehem is simply a nice story for children. On the contrary, the appearance of an extraordinary star over Persia would have most certainly aroused the curiosity of some Persian Magi, of that time, interpreting it as a message from Heaven announcing the birth of a divinely appointed King.

What do we know specifically about the Magi whom St Matthew describes? To begin with it would seem that they were regarded as men of aristocratic rank even in Jerusalem. This is evidenced by the fact that they had instant access to King Herod's court. Their gifts also suggest that they were men of some wealth. How did they travel to Judeah from Persia? Because the journey would have taken them across desert regions, it seems most feasible that they employed camels for their journey. How many Magi came to worship Jesus? Matthew does not give us an exact number, he simply speaks of Magi in the plural. However based on the number of gifts offered to Jesus, three, it is traditionally considered that their number corresponded to the gifts:

". . . and going into the house they saw the child with Mary His mother, and they fell down and worshiped Him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered Him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh". (Matthew 2:11).

* In Later times the term "magus"/ "magos" would evolve into a pejorative designation, a synonym for "sorcerer", "soothsayer", "magician", "fortune teller", "charlatan" etc. (eg. Simon Magus). However the "Magi" described by Herodotus and chronicled in St Matthew were an esteemed and honourable caste of Persian society.
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haleh
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: d Reply with quote

THanks for the information Spenta - btw, the cartoon is really cute..
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Spenta



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2004 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Haleh,

There are many Nativity Figurines on the web, I quickly picked these because of the colors of the robes, especially the blue yellow/purple is very typical of ancient Persian Kings. I think the old Christian mozaics also show the Magi with the Blue/yellow robes. Interesting that many centuries later it ends up as the colors of the robes of European Wizards in Fairy Tales, eh? Wink
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Hoi Persai



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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2004 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting thread. I had not heard of the efforts to change their ethnicity! Laughing Anyway, I found this very educational and I commend you on your work.
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salinescape
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2004 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hoi Persaioi wrote:
Very interesting thread. I had not heard of the efforts to change their ethnicity! Laughing Anyway, I found this very educational and I commend you on your work.


Yes --- I should get back into my Sufi reading..
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reza



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its no great crime to share cultural aspects the iraniaans have done just as much of it.

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plagiarisms and outright thefts of many Iranian thoughts

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perzopolis



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right, but people should be more aware of where certain traditions are derived from. Of course people should be aware of a lot of things they currently are not.
c
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Pasagarde



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information. Many things that the West has actually was originated in Persia. We see that such a strong and vital empire really had a big impact in the world we live in today.
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reza



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
We see that such a strong and vital empire really had a big impact in the world we live in today.


so many things i could say to disprove this but however i cannot as not only will i be persecuted for standing up for my beliefs again, but none of you will believe anything i have to say. So... all i WILL (not can) say is that the persian empire had little impact on the world except to give the greeks more chance to develop and shape the world as we know it.
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perzopolis



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reza - I will not persecute you, but could you give some examples of what you say here: "the persian empire had little impact on the world except to give the greeks more chance to develop and shape the world as we know it."
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stefania



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, by the way, HAPPY CHRISTIMAS ! (Can we say "christmas" ? ACLU and Islamists may sue us Laughing )
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reza



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, because the persians invaded greece and were beaten back at marathon, the athenians were able to set up the delian league. This league meant that all the city states in greece would donate large sums of money to Athens who would use it to build a navy to combat the threat of Persia. But this money was a massive amount and so athens diverted this money into town afairs allowing democracy philosophy and theatre to flourish under the greeks newfound wealth.

Happy? although i do thank you for questioning me rather than the usual insults hurled at me.

the persian empire made no greater contributions to civilisation than the invention of the postal system.
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Pasagarde



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't it true that the Christmas tree was originated at the hands of a Christian monk?
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Sourena



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in referance to the previous posts about the three wise men, while it is impossible for them all to haven been iranian (because they were of different ethnicities), i recently saw a documentary that proved historically, geographically and astronomically that they came from persia. (Also a recent brittish study has said that they could have been women. Wink )

In response to reza (you knew this was coming Wink ), what do you mean by "the persian empire"? if you mean the archemenian empire, then yes, you are right. Their contributions to the modern world is the postal system, coinage (this is debated), the continuance of the jewish faith, and heightening the greeks in history (the greko-persian wars, alexander, etc). However, "the persian empire" would mean all of the dynasties, and there are far more contributions there.

also stefania, nice quote. the proper wording however is.
"I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it. "
I'm more a descartes man myself.


Last edited by Sourena on Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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stefania



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PostPosted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought you were a woman Shocked
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