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CALL FOR ACTION: Iran being labeled "part of the arab w
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Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Oppenheimer,

I’ll attempt to tackle your thought provoking yet difficult question. This is a difficult question indeed, because Iran’s history is not similar to that of many other nations, such as the US, or most European countries who have had unbroken continuity and unity in the sense of a nation. Iran did have that, up until the Arabic conquest of the 7th century. However, after that, it has been marked by tumultuous rule by various ethnic groups and dynasties which have competed for dominion in western Asia. Many of these dynasties have co-existed in different parts of the “geographic and cultural Iran” at the same time, with overlaps in their reign and power. So you see, in order to answer your question, one must first define who had the absolute power over the nation, which at times becomes blurry. Complicate that by the fact that vast influxes of nomadic tribes brought turmoil and cultural mixing, and the definition of Iran as a nation becomes blurred from the 9th century to the 17th century. The various groups and dynasties have at times diverged from Iran, and at other times converged to form a more diverse yet united Iran. In that sense, Iran’s history is both interesting and confusing, at least to me.

I must admit again that I can think of no text that defines the answer to your question explicitly. The answer is reached after some comparative analysis, and I’ll bet that different people/ historians will come up with different answers. The answer also relates to how you define times of war. Do you count rebellions? Do you count times of foreign occupation? Do you count border skirmishes with unfriendly neighbors? If you count all of these, the answer to “what was the longest period of peace” is “almost never!” But if you define it as the absence of a major, declared war, like I define it, then I can give you an answer.

I won’t try to dance around your question much longer. After independently researching your question, my answer to “what was the longest period of continued peace, when and under what dynasty?” would be “83 years, from 1639, after the peace with the Ottomans, known as the Treaty of Qasr e Shirin, which established frontiers to the west that remain virtually unchanged to the present, until 1722, the date of the invasion of Iran by the Afghans under Mahmoud, all of which occurred under the Safavid Dynasty.” I must emphasize that this is the conclusion I personally reached after pondering your question. I certainly don’t hold this to be an absolute truth, but merely as my best interpretation of our history. And although I have a deep passion for our history, I am no professional historian, and I am sure that there are true historians out there that may have a more educated and accurate answer.

Your question raises some other points to consider, although I am not sure if that was your intent. I think a question that any non-Iranian might ask is “why has Iran’s history been so filled with violence and war?” “Are Iranians war mongers by nature?” Well, some of us are, and always have been. Our history has been filled with kings/rulers who always went looking for a fight, for personal gain or glory. Most of those wars, as with any wars in human history, have been fruitless and ultimately costly for the poor commoners of Iran. But you must also consider the geopolitical place of Iran in the world. The geographic/ political significance of Iran has been a major catalyst for the wars our nation has seen. It has always been smack in the middle of the civilized world throughout three millennia. It is, along with Turkey, the bridge between Asia and Europe. It had control over the major trade routes from East to West. And now, it sits over a significant share of the world’s oil and gas supply, as well as act as the bridge for other nations’ gas and oil supply routes. Furthermore, Iran was always a border nation with the nomadic tribes of the steppes, who ventured south and west in search of a better life. Long ago, until Sassanid times, Iran had the strength to keep these tribes in check. In fact, Iran indirectly partially led to the downfall of the Western Roman Empire, because Sassanians were too strong for the nomadic Huns and others to take on, so these hordes moved on further west for easier pickings. However, by the 9th century, Iran could no longer hold off the invading hordes, and was gradually and continuously overrun by the nomadic Turkish and Mongolian tribes. So you see, although Iran did go picking many fights, the majority of fights came knocking on Iran’s door.

Another interesting revelation that I received while considering your question was the following. Although I intuitively thought that peace naturally leads to prosperity, I was surprised that this relatively long period of peace during the Safavid Dynasty was actually marked by one of Iran’s sorriest and decadent time periods. The leaders of Iran during most of those 83 years of peace (with the exception of Shah Abbass II) were notoriously tyrannical and incompetent, and Iran was in a state of decay. I found this to be an interesting irony. I am reminded of an ancient saying: “a bad peace is worse than war.”

By the way, regarding your CIV II game, I am not surprised that the Mongols attacked. I have never played this game, but if I learned anything from history, it’s that the Mongols always attack! I bet if you went outside your home in Santa Fe and built a large wall for no apparent reason, the next day Mongolians on horseback would show up and attack it, for no apparent reason! Laughing

I thank you for forcing me to struggle over this subject; I rather enjoyed it, and learned a thing or two myself. I hope I didn’t bore you with my long and dubious answer to your relatively short and precise question.

I am Dariush the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage

Naqshe Rostam
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Joined: 03 Mar 2005
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Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Amir,

Thanks for taking the time to research my question.

Reason for it, is that it exemplifies especcially now, the need for a free Iran, devoid of extremist government, bent on militaristic agression.

If I read you correctly, never in all of Persia's history has there been a generation that could not remember personally having been at war in one's lifetime.

Those that know what war is have often been the biggest proponents of peace, and that is true enough, as reflected by the majority of folks in the Iranian opposition today.

It is then perhaps not incorrect to say in all of Persia's history, there has been no democracy (with the exception of a brief democratic experiment 2500 yrs ago), and no long term period of peace.

Thus it seems to me that a future free Iran , fully engaged in entering the 21st century, in good standing among the family of nations cannot carry the baggage of past history along for the ride.

As I witness today not simply the condemnation of Antar's rhetoric, but the considerable restraint shown by nation's threatened by those remarks (which in times past would have be provacation enough for immediate hostilities to ensue), it has reinforced the Iranian opposition's call for free nation's support for the democratization of Iran, and a more civilized government that is able to move Iran into a 21st century mindset.

Key to this becoming manifest is Iranian people's realixation that this regime currently represents the greatest threat to the Iran nation, not the US, not Israel, but that it is the regime that has placed their peace in jepordy, not to mention any and all progress forward into the modern era.

Thanks again for your great illumination on the history....and I would simply add that my strategy for success as "cyrus the great" in civII was to simply use my diplomats to bribe any and all aggressors, assimilating them into my civilization through revolution, and retaining good relations with all other civilizations.

I had tweeked the scenario as a "what if" had Cyrus the great's democracy continued.

Funny thing about Mongolia today....they have good relations with Russia, China, and the US....

not an easy task in their neck of the woods.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, Oppenheimer, indeed.

Humanity’s greatest quantum leap forward will be the day that it realizes the true folly of war, and is able to co-exist with all of earth’s inhabitants, in a world without war. I am pessimistic about the attainability of such a world; but what a wonderful world it would be.

My joke about Mongolians referred only to Mongolians of almost a millennium ago; not our contemporaries. But you are absolutely right about their contemporaries. In fact, it is quite disheartening when I see most of our former enemies, such as Greece, Italy, Turkey, most Arab nations, and yes, even Mongolia, enjoying a relatively prosperous and peaceful co-existence in this world, while my good nation has to be labeled as part of an “Axis of Evil.” Unfortunately, Iran’s worst enemy right now is Iran. And by that I mean those who control Iran, who call themselves Iranian, but are in fact the worst traitors.

I leave you with one final thought from a man I do not hold in high esteem, but feel compelled to quote:

“In peace, sons bury their fathers; In war, fathers bury their sons.”
- Herodotus of Hellicarnassus
I am Dariush the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage

Naqshe Rostam
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:51 am    Post subject: PERSIAN EMPIRE WAS OMITTED IN THE SCHOLASTIC Reply with quote


www.scholastic.com ANNUAL


A) Please distribute/forward this petition as broadly as it is humanly possible and encourage ALL, Persian/Iranian compatriots, as well as our extended colleagues, friends, and families worldwide but especially in the
US to go to:



B) and sign the petition. Individualized comments added to the petition are very helpful. Also, everyone should go to the Scholastic website at
http://www.scholastic.com and send them his/her sentiments, too by clicking on the
[About us] button and then by clicking on the [Contact us] button... (Call
or send email to them).
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